The Right Way
It was a beautiful summer day and my wife, my son, and I were going to enjoy it to the fullest. We were flying to Madeline Island (4R5) in La Pointe, Wisconsin, for the day.
The field length at our home airport is 3,099 feet which, according to my POH, is well within the capabilities of our Cherokee 140 — as long as we use the recommended short-field takeoff technique.
So I lined us up at the end of the runway, added two notches of flaps, applied breaks, and powered-up. Once the power was at maximum I released brakes and we started rolling. I kept just enough back-pressure on the yoke to keep our nosewheel lightly on the ground.
My wife was sitting placidly next to me reading a crocheting magazine. Our son sat in the back playing on his video game player (I made a note to “forget” that at home next time).
We accelerated down the runway at breakneck speed as I confirmed oil pressure, airspeed, and power. OK, so maybe not at breakneck speed, but at as much acceleration as one can expect from a Cherokee 140 on an 85° day.
Halfway down the runway we had enough speed for me to ease us into ground effect. I held us there until we reached Vx.
I glanced up at the trees in front of us. A voice inside of me which, come to think of it sounded a lot like my CFI, said “don’t fixate on the trees, check your airspeed.”
Then I pitched for Vx and held it there — if we’re not going to clear the trees at Vx then we’re not going to clear the trees.
I glanced up again. “Don’t look at the trees, check your airspeed!” that voice said.
My wife looked absently out the side window.
And…we cleared those trees by 100 feet easily. I takeoff under these conditions regularly. But it has never become a routine.
The Wrong Way
It goes without saying that since I’m here writing this, this next takeoff didn’t go that badly. I’m sure that after reading this you’ll agree that this is not because of my good judgment or skill. Rather my survival is due to sheer luck.
Relying on luck is not conducive to a long life.
It was a beautiful summer day and my friend Cal wanted to go for an airplane ride in our flying club’s Piper Arrow. We also were taking his wife Kathy and her friend. Cal is no lightweight, and I’m really not either. But I ran the numbers and we were right at gross weight.
I notably did not run the numbers for take-off performance, but I knew it’d be close.
OK, stop. I knew it’d be close? What kind of idiot was I? I was putting my passengers and myself in great peril. I was a dad!
I knew it would be close, but I didn’t check the runway requirements? Was I really that stupid?
Yes, yes I was.
We lined up at the end of the runway. And when I say the end of the runway, I mean our tail was hanging out over the back end of it. I added two notches of flaps, applied brakes, prop forward, throttle forward, and released those brakes.
We just sat there for an instant. Did I mention this was a grass runway?
We gradually accelerated down the runway. I started thinking I should abort. But how would that look? Besides, this was an Arrow! It had 180 horses. And on we went.
About three quarters of the way down the runway I knew we were in trouble. My buddy Cal started tensing up.
“We’ll be fine,” I lied. I’m sure he heard the doubt in my voice.
When we got to the end of the runway we had enough airspeed to get us into ground effect, but not quite enough to climb. The barb-wire fence at the end of the runway was only about 4 feet high, but it got my attention. We cleared it by a few inches. I pulled back just enough to clear that fence and then lowered us back down to get a few more precious knots.
Had there been trees at the end of that runway we’d have certainly hit them.
There was a road — and had there been a semi going down that road we’d have hit that. We crossed over the road still in ground effect.
On the other side of the road there was a hill. Fortunately for us it went down and not up. Down to a lake. I raised our gear as we went down that hill and wondered if we’d mush into the water. Had there been a sail boat along our path…
As we flew out over the water we finally got up enough speed to achieve Vx. I eased the flaps up as we climbed out over the lake.
And as we climbed out my buddy’s wife said, “Hey Roland, that was fun, can we do that again?”
“No,” I said. And I never did.
I am one of the rare people who owns both a PA28-140 and a 160hp C172M. I fly off of a 3300′ runway at 900’MSl, usually solo but sometimes with one passenger.
Your description is EXACTLY why I consider the C172 with the camber lift wing a far superior airplane.
There are many days when I would NEVER fly the PA28 but would fly the C172. In fact, when I was stationed at Edwards AFB, I once flew four rotund people with a density altitude of likely 6-7000′ with no issue. The PA28 would still be embedded in the Joshua trees.
I can’t tell if your Cherokee has the 32′ wing or the early 30′ Hershey bar wing. The first is bad enough; the second is an accident looking for a place to happen IF you haven’t done your homework. I once owned a PA28-180 and did a takeoff at the Grand Canyon airport with one lightweight passenger. The airplane got itself into ground effect but barely climbed … but ultimately did.
The good news is that the Cherokee is easier to land because it makes a clean transition from flying to being a car going down the runway. The Cessna — on the other hand — is always willing to keep floating. Airspeed on landing is critical in the Cessna if you want to make a short field landing.
Anyone flying a PA28 … especially a 140 … had better get very familiar with the performance tables !!!
Wow! I have never seen such a scathing attack on PA28’s. I have a 1968 PA28-180 (with the constant chord or “Hershey bar” wing) and have flown quite a few 140’s. Most of my friends own PA28’s. I also have quite a bit of time in 172’s and 152’s. I could not disagree more with your assessment.
The PA28 has very good runway performance for a low wing aircraft. Most of my take offs get off the ground in about 800 feet and the worst I ever experience was fully loaded with a DA of about 3400′ on a 95 degree day. That wasn’t fun, but I was off the ground in about 2,000′ and climbing at about 400 fpm. Granted, that’s not as good as my 900 + fpm climbs when at near SL Density Altitudes, but it is in no way the frightening experience you describe. 3,300′ is plenty of runway for a PA28. And if you want even more take off performance, add gaps seals, Hoerner tips, and vortex generators and it will practically want to jump off the runway.
The only problem that some people have with take offs in the PA28 is that they try to yank the plane off the runway. That’s bad technique in any airplane, but in a low wing such technique delays the building of lift. The proper technique is to let the plane accelerate to about 50 to 60 mph and then apply gentle back pressure until the plane flies itself off the runway.
The take off roll is not just about building speed, it’s also about building lift. Lift has to develop as the angle of attack is slowly increased. Lift does not develop instantaneously once the AOA is changed and this is why yanking the plane off the runway is bad technique. Once airspeed has been achieved, slight back pressure on the yoke begins the transition to a climb AOA and then the plane wants to jump right into the air, straight through ground effect and into a healthy climb.
If you are not experiencing this with your 140 I highly recommend taking a closer look at several things. Perhaps your aircraft is severely out of rig, or maybe your engine is not developing full power, or perhaps your prop is considerably worn and no longer producing adequate thrust. A stock 140 should have no problem getting off a 3,300 foot runway at a DA of 2,000′ even fully loaded.
Daniel, agree with all you say, also coming from someone with a lot of experience in the Hershey Bar PA 28’s.
Another issue is that the 30′ wings with 10′ stabilators have a hard time keeping the nose up on landing if there’s no weight aft… vs the 32′ wings with 12′ stabilator. That’s why Piper did that. They recognized that the short wing and short stabilator design wasn’t sufficient.
At one time, I owned an American Aviation AA-1A trainer with 24.5′ wing span. Now THERE is an airplane that had a horrible reputation but was fun to fly. Problem is, it didn’t carry much fuel and — with two aboard — was a brick trying to fly. I flew it for more than a year in the high desert of California where DA’s of 5K’ were commonplace. I was always careful if I had a passenger.
Maybe I wasn’t clear about my preference for my C172M over the PA28. I don’t have a problem getting off the 3,300 runway … my issue with it is that I would NEVER EVER put four people in the thing but I’d easily consider it with the C172. When I owned a PA28-180 and tried a takeoff at high DA at the Grand Canyon airport with just two people, one a lightweight, I darn near didn’t get out of ground effect on a 7,000 ft runway.
As far as I am concerned, the 30′ early winged PA28’s aren’t even in the same league as the C172 … especially one with a 160hp engine vs the stock 150hp. I changed out my engine and was pleasantly surprised at the increased performance on very little additional fuel flow in the 172
There are two places where the PA28 is better. If doesn’t float and it holds 50 gallons vs 38 for the 172. Other than that, there’s no room in the thing, ingress/egress is a pain, under panel maintenance is a pain and the oleo landing gear doesn’t put up with abuse like the Cessna spring gear does.
Oh, I’m an A&P so I know my PA28 is running fine. If nothing else, it boils down to the perennial preference of high wing over low wing. For me … I’ll take the 160hp high wing all day long. Not many people can say they own one of each so … that’s MY preference. I’ve been flying for half a century so I know how to make the houses get smaller, too.
I haven’t flown in a few years now but still own a sweet Tri-Pacer with a O320 150 HP engine. It has the old stol tips that hang down about a foot. Not a looker but a true sweetheart. I have flown from a rural airport that I enjoy visiting. It is grass/dirt, 1800 ft long with 50′ obstruction on the north end and smaller trees to the south. I usually turn out to follow the canyon when departing to the south. If you don’t, you have to contend with a rising canyon wall. Not impossible but not easy.
I always do a short field takeoff from this field. Full flaps, full power run up . Yoke all the way back. Roll out till nose lifts. Lower nose slowly as speed increases while keeping the nose off the ground. As the speed builds and the mains come off, allow the plane to climb then start taking out flaps slowly trying to maintain altitude. When controls normalize, go ahead and climb out.
Usually alone 150lb., the plane responds well and lift off is in less than 1/2 the distance to the end of the runway.
I have about 70 hours in a Cherokee 140. 150 horse. O320. I wouldn’t consider taking up 4 people in one. I wouldn’t want to fly with full tanks and me and my instructor on a hot day. Our altitude from my home airport is about 3500. ‘ and the runway is about 3800’. I love the old pipers but I truly think their loading can be misunderstood.
Always leave a cushion. Never go “by the book”. If you are having repeated close calls, someone is trying to tell you something. Aircraft engines do not make rated horsepower without changes to the original configuration! Tuned exhaust, still kit , prop change etc.
Sounds like a soft field technique was used, not a short field technique. You don’t hold elevator on the roll in a short field technique, that only increases drag. Keeping the nosewheel light is for soft fields. You also don’t accelerate in ground effect, that is also for soft fields.
You are correct Steve. I have flown in to 4R5 and it is paved so no soft field is needed.
Additionally every book I have from when I flew at a university calls for short and soft field to be done with 1 notch of flaps not 2. At least for the -161 and -181 aircraft books I have.
In doing some quick research it seems older revisions of the POH for Cherokees call for 2 notches on short field and it appears many old Cherokee pilots online use 2 notches as well. I have no actual data on which one results in the shortest ground roll at this time. Either way short field was called for on that runway not soft field as it appears the author did.
I have several hundred hours in a Cherokee 140 with me, wife and two small children plus some baggage. 3000 feet is NOT a short runway and the short field technique with 2 notches of flaps is NOT optimal for his condition. The airplane is heavy and needs speed it climb, why put down flaps in that condition? Maybe one notch to break ground but when in ground effect pull the flaps up and accelerate, at 80 mph indicated start to raise the nose and hold 85 for the climb.
Too many modern pilots misunderstand the use of flaps on takeoff. They are intended to get the airplane off the ground but then it needs to accelerate and a low powered airplane, heavy at high density altitude can’t accelerate with flaps down. In a Cherokee with manual flaps the best technique is to accelerate with flaps UP and just as you want to break ground apply back pressure and pop flaps down for a few seconds to get the airplane off then flaps up, nose down in ground effect to accelerate then climb.
Many years ago, I flew a 140, from an 1800 ft dirt runway with obstacles all the way around. 3100 feet is a total non event. I later got my first multi time in a 310 on those same 1800 ft runways
Sounds like he’s illustrating that the 3100-foot runway indeed was a non-event, as opposed to the other incident that occurred on a shorter grass strip. Both were summer days, which I’m assuming he mentions because density altitude was a factor, especially in the second, “wrong-way” part of the story (that would have been a nice detail to state plainly in the story if it were indeed the case). Either way, there were a lot of links in the second story that could have made the outcome a lot worse. “But how would that look?” I know this is one I will probably have to ask myself someday if I’m in a similar situation, but we have to fight that. How it will look is that we care more about the lives of our passengers than we do about getting them off the ground for a leisure flight. I’m not pointing fingers at all here. Fighting ego is hard. We all struggle with it. Sometimes we live another day to deal with the regret, and learn the lesson you did. Sometimes though, we only get one chance to make that decision.
Yes, my intent was to illustrate that a 3100-foot runway is not a problem for a Cherokee 140; but I don’t take it for granted.
Good point about the density altitude on the ‘Wrong Way’ portion. I should have mentioned that it was a hot summer day. That was about 25 years ago and I don’t recall the exact temperature. It was probably in the mid 80s.