I recently received an email from a CFI — let’s call him Bill — seeking advice, as well as feedback on an idea.
He works for a flight school, but on the side also instructs one student in the family-owned aircraft.
Bill’s idea is to approach the aircraft’s owner to see about using the plane for “personal use to build some time.”
“I’m just wondering if you’ve heard of this before or have any experience in what type of arrangements you’ve seen in the past,” writes Bill. “What do you think of this?”
More common than anyone knows, I think
I wrote back to Bill telling him I believe these types of arrangements are more common than anyone knows.
Using myself as an example, it has been roughly 20 years since I’ve owned an airplane. But a long-time family friend, Jeff Rounce, who spoke at my Dad’s funeral, has offered me the use of his 1946 J-3 Cub for many years. The exact same make, model, and year of manufacture as the one I soloed on my 16th birthday last century.
Our arrangement? I’m a named insured on Jeff’s policy, I provide my own renter’s insurance, of course, and split the cost of the annual with Jeff. That allows me access to fly the Cub. When I’m done with a flight, I top up the fuel tank and put it back in the hangar just as I found it.
Without a doubt, it is a sweet deal for me.
I called Jeff before writing this column to make sure he was OK with my sharing our handshake agreement.
Obviously he is, otherwise I wouldn’t be writing about it.
“But you need to fly more hours Ben,” was his fatherly admonishment. For which I’m grateful. He’s right, but that’s not his problem. That’s mine.
Do you share?
Aircraft are — or can be — deeply personal things. I get that. Jeff’s Cub has been in his family for decades. First his father, then his brother, now him. That plane means something to Jeff. As well it should.
Personal or not, there are many planes — and pilots — that don’t fly enough each year.
And while aircraft partnerships — and other legal structures — are fine, sometimes they are overkill.
So, I wonder. Do you share your airplane with someone? If so, how do you do it? I’d like to know. And I’m certain there are a bunch of fellow owners and would-be beneficiaries who are also curious.
Feel free to use the comment section below, or if you’d rather share your insight more personally, my email is [email protected] or feel free to call me at 800-426-8538 x2.
Hopefully Bill will have struck up an arrangement by the time you read this, but if not, let’s give him — and the airplane’s owner — some ideas to consider.
April 17 Update: Added reference to being a named insured on Jeff’s insurance policy.
I have many years ago allowed a friend to fly my C-172 to get some training and then he flew it solo.
He paid for all the insurance and bought all the gas.
It worked out fine for us.
When I moved to TX I let my neighbor fly the same 172 while he hangared it in his hangar next door while I used my hangar to house a recently acquired Champ along with a different partner.
Neighbor was named on the policy and paid half the insurance.
It all worked out fine.
Of course no one wrecked anything.
IF you wanna do some sharing I seriously suggest contacting the AOPA for some guidance.
First off, allow me to say that I probably have more experience along these lines than almost anyone. I’m 75 now, a CFII since I was 23, flew my first plane when I was 13, soloed at 16. I have always been an airplane fruitcake, love the stinkin’ things. I am also a lifelong A&P, having gotten my license based on my experience as a Jet Fighter Crew Chief in the Air Force. I also spent 22 months working on (and flying extensively), the Army helicopters in Vietnam. I currently have my five planes in my backyard hangar. I have somewhere well over 10,000 hours.
I have ALWAYS felt than owning a plane as a solo pilot was just plain stupid. As an A&P, I know too well what happens to any machine when it just sits. As an airplane owner forever, I also know that sharing a plane is one of the best parts of owning, the social interaction is more important than the flying. And since the big Oak tree that we all congregate under, used to, that is, gave way to ugly asphalt long ago, that is more important today than it has ever been . Far more learning took place under that oak tree than any place else.
And let’s not even talk about the cost of being the single owner, especially if you are not an A&P, or are not on back-slapping terms with an A&P. That is beyond absurd. Don’t live on the airport with your own hanger in your back yard? AND YOU OWN A PLANE??? Man, it must be wonderful to be that rich.
Ok. Costs of sharing your plane. Prorate it. First off, keep track of costs. Whenever anyone else flies it, both of you keep track of those hours, and when the time comes to settle up, prorate the costs. The non-owner keeps insurance that covers BOTH of you, with non-owner insurance. Personally? I could have bought five more planes with the insurance I have paid out, and I have NEVER had a claim. I know very few pilots that ever have. If I had a high-dollar plane, then not having insurance would be stupid —probably—-. A good friend with a high-dollar Stearman just hit a pig on landing, and ended up flipped upside down on the taxiway. His insurance is going to pay off for him, for the first time in his now-somewhat-elderly life. I can guarantee you, he has paid for that Stearman several times over in insurance up until now. The insurance will pay for the repairs which will be a whole bunch less than what the plane is worth. My opinion? Liability insurance. Other than that, keep that money in YOUR pocket. And fly safe. Pay your own bills.
People you would share your plane with. Would you allow them to take your 16-year-old daughter on a weeklong trip by themselves? That’s the person you should possibly THINK ABOUT sharing your plane with. Nothing else really matters.
Have a formal written understanding, of course, about liability, repair costs, use of the plane hour-wise, and fuel costs. Fuel—EVERYONE leaves the plane topped up. Don’t ever leave any plane with half-empty tanks, even you. That is begging for water in the fuel.
Other than that, sharing a plane is far more practical, good for the plane, and good for everyone’s social life, than just pride of ownership. Share the washing of it, too.
I had a Piper Pacer conversion for sale some years back and had it in a hangar an hour and a half away.That Fall I asked the FBO there to fly it when they could and just put gas in it. That winter they put about six hours on it as I remember. Not a lot of hours but much better than just sitting for the winter.
a-yep. As an A&P.
Our airplane is a partnership. We have all 4 owners listed but also have an open pilot policy that covers other pilots should they fly. Works for us.
Betcha you guys have fun together also, don’t you? Good arrangement.
Just a clarification: Ben is and always has been a named pilot on the Cub insurance policy.
Very poor idea for the owner. After 15 years as an aircraft insurance underwriter, may I point out:
1. The non owner insurance protects the renter, & A/C owner with little protection. Now for insurance 101:
If the renter’s passinger mate or even the renter, someone on the ground, etc. is injured the non owner insurance provides owner if the A/C with no protection if sue. ( What’s the likely hood of that? HA!). 2. If there is an accident and limits of non owner policy is exceeded, owner may be stuck with the shortage.
3. Since it’s been several years since I was in the business, ckeck this out first… a simple solution was to have the owner name the the friend as a renter. Used to cost a little. That will povide protection for the renter and then the renter just needs to buy the minimum coverages, IF the renter buys their policy through the same company. (Insurance companys don’t sue themselves.) Now, the next question is the FAA. (Oh…If the A/C owner’s insurance company won’t name or allow a renter than rent an airplane like everybody else not keen the non owner’s insurance.
I have a cessna 150. A friend asked if he could use the airplane to get his license. He offered to pay to use the aircraft. I called my insurance company to see how much to cover him. I pay @ $500.00 per year now, if he pays to use the plane it will be $3,000.00 per year. Certainly not worth it for him or me.
That’s because he would be “paying you”. That means you would pay the same insurance costs as the FBO who would be renting the plane 8 hours a day. Put him on the policy as a named second pilot. And let him pay, say, half of your hangar bill. Plus whatever the additional insurance would be, (probably nothing extra, but I am not an insurance agent), and of course, he tops off the plane every time he flies.
I have a feeling this question is on the minds of a lot of pilots and owners. Your arrangement sounds about as simple as they come, but also has unique characteristics of a family nature. I’m wondering if your arrangement has been tested by any incident? What kind of discussions have taken place with each of your respective insurance companies? Why not just list pilots on one policy for the particular aircraft?
I share my Sonex with my mechanic. He maintains the airplane (I buy the parts) and has access to fly any time he wants to. He maintains non owned aircraft insurance and tops it off with gas whenever he flies, which is really not enough. I wish he would fly it more, but he keeps very busy working on other airplanes, which, unfortunately, keeps him too busy to work on mine much of the time.
This works out fine for both of us. I only wish he had more time to keep the airplane up and running.
If he is doing all the maintenance, as you seem to state, that is a bad deal for him. As an A&P, I would probably pro-rate any work I did, but I guarantee you, I wouldn’t go for that deal.
A great question that has been poking around in the back of so many pilot’s heads. Sharing is good economically for the owner and the borrower. It’s good for the airplane as it spends less time sitting dormant.
I applaud you for posing a great question along with a viable example of at least one answer. I’ll be curious to see alternative perspectives in a future issue of GA News.