This is an excerpt from a report made to the Aviation Safety Reporting System. The narrative is written by the pilot, rather than FAA or NTSB officials. To maintain anonymity, many details, such as aircraft model or airport, are often scrubbed from the reports.
My student pilot and I had just entered the pattern from a 45° leg to left downwind when a call on CTAF addressed us by call sign, asked our intentions, and said we were “all over the place.”
I looked to my right and saw another airplane about 500 feet from us, also on left downwind.
The pilot said on CTAF that he had just turned from crosswind to downwind and was aware of our entry from the 45 based on our position reports. He said he would extend downwind to allow us to land ahead of him.
I can think of three factors that contributed to my failure to see the traffic until so late.
First, the CTAF frequency for ZZZ is shared by numerous airports in the area. While I was talking my student through the pattern entry, we were hearing calls for at least four different airports without any silence, so we had to talk to each other over these calls. In such a situation it was easy to miss the one call we needed to hear.
Second, the frequency was congested shortly before the traffic conflict by a lengthy and non-standard position report ending with, “could any traffic in the area please advise.” This may have been the pilot of the aircraft that conflicted with me or it may have been an unrelated call at another airport that blocked the frequency. A colleague who had just landed at the same airport later told me that the same pilot had also called him on CTAF while he was on final, asking his “intentions after landing.”
Third, my student had become disoriented while making a teardrop turn to the 45° entry and I was distracted by helping her get reoriented to the airport and make a correct pattern entry.
Primary Problem: Procedure
ACN: 1819509
Using the term “intruder” shows a mindset of distain for those not wishing to join the marry-go-round, resulting in the constant pattern problem posts.. Check regs, not required.
In actuality I’m monitoring your position and adjusting as necessary to not disrupt the pattern, plus my frequent position reports. Other good news is that I land, fuel and then leave, don’t play around in the pattern.
I would not be quick to criticize the instructor in this case. There is much that is not clear from the report as published. the original ASRS report my have had a lot more detail.
1) The instructor and student may have overflown the airport well above pattern altitude and proceeded a sufficient distance from the airport (2 to 3 miles at least) to descend to pattern altitude and make a “teardrop” turn back to the 45 degree entry to left downwind. Not at all unusual or unsafe. The other pilot may have been watching the instructor/student aircraft on his traffic display and not made any calls at all.
2) We don’t know what calls the other traffic was making (if any) and that aircraft may not have been easily visible to the instructor or student, and the other aircraft could have been quite a bit faster especially if it was a faster high-performance aircraft like a Bonanza for instance. The instructor and student may have been in a C152 doing 90 knots and the other aircraft climbing out and arriving at pattern altitude at 140 knots. We don’t know.
3) I agree with the pilot from Canada … a 45 degree entry to downwind presents its own problems. How many of us are looking 45 degrees behind us long enough to pick out another air aircraft when making that entry? It depends on the visual background and relative motion of the other aircraft.
4) We don’t know if the other aircraft was flying a wider than normal pattern or simply flew wider to avoid the instruction aircraft. How many times have we flown a normal pattern and followed another aircraft wide of us on a “traffic pattern X/C”?
5) One of the local airports here in CT has a CTAF that is the same as the VFR corridor over the Hudson through the NY class B AND the same as Newport, RI airport. A good-weather busy day makes traffic calls difficult at best.
Certainly there were problems with the event described, but we don’t have all the information in the abbreviated description. Full description of position on a traffic call is important. How many times have we heard “XXX traffic, white Cessna midfield downwind” where the the name of the airport is muddled and now you don’t know which runway or left or right downwind. We can assume some things here, but you know what ASSUME does.
Whoa—you cut INSIDE of the guy on downwind. I bet it was all that talking to your student, turning, descending, radio calls—the whole furball, the whole enchilada, that caused you to fly into a traffic pattern inside of a guy on downwind. You lost situational awareness, it happens, but boy can THAT bite a guy. Good article—it could easily happen.
There is so much wrong here another entire article could be written (and many have). To begin, neither “Please advise”, nor teardrop entry are in the AIM. A flyover with a circle descent to pattern altitude should be 2 miles away from an airport, not as part of joining a pattern. Although a pattern can be joined from any leg (the 45 is only the preferred method) that joining can not disrupt the flow of aircraft already in the pattern. In other words, a straight in from 5 miles can’t expect the right of way over someone on a downwind. The objective is to blend in with other traffic.
Improper procedure and radio phraseology clog an already busy system. If radios were tied up, a short circle above or away from the airport until gaining situational awareness allows the student and CFI to orient themselves and can save bad things from happening. “Please advise?” I advise anyone to follow proper radio procedure and drop this statement. It is not the job of another pilot to advise someone. Also, radios are not required at non towered airports. How can someone with no radio advise anyone?
When making radio calls stick to the AIM and simply and briefly report your own position and intentions. This saves radio clutter and is a great help in situational awareness for everyone. Finally, always begin and end your transmission saying the airport name. This allows everyone on a crowded frequency to know where aircraft are located in relation to the desired airport.
Lastly, even though you follow the rules, we know many who don’t. Keep that head on a swivel no matter what type of airport. There are plenty of gravestones with names of people who followed the rules.
Eyes outside all the time and the 45 degree entry is part of the problem. In Canada we do not use the 45 entry but rather join mid downwind. Works much better/safer.
I’m sorry, but the person creating the biggest hazard is the gentleman coming straight in. I’ve lived on a no rad private airport for the last 40 years and the only time a conflict came up was straight in traffic. The problem with straight inners is they are outside of the traffic pattern and while you are on down wind your facing that possible traffic on a straight on profile that is hard to see and not being looked for outside of the establised traffic pattern. Even when on base, looking for that possible intruder with a head on profile, they are hard to spot, and quite concerning when they suddenly bust in in front of you just before your turn to final. They usually come screaming that “did you not hear me on the radio”. My reply ” Fly the traffic pattern , or stay the XXXXX!!!!! away from my airport ” we do not all have those RAD crutches. Also, 500 feet away is NOT a close call.
This and many posts like it are the reason when inbound, tower or not, I position myself for straight in or at least base. Minimizes exposure and much easier to keep track of pattern shenanigans.
And yes, I know what is recommended.
Maybe some analysis of the the full radio traffic during the incident might reveal something, but no such recording exists and without actual relative positioning and altitude information, it probably wouldn’t yield the reasons for the closeness of the encounter.
I offer one explanation: Before making the turn to enter downwind (even at the pattern altitude) departing traffic is lower and behind the line of flight, especially an aircraft that may be climbing during the crosswind leg. This would be further aggravated while entering from a 45 because the aircraft is banking and if the aircraft is a low wing then the departing a/c would most likely not be visible.
We could all lecture both parties on the urgency to be vigilant in the busy scenario. The real nonsense in this case is the nature of the remarks via radio traffic. In a conflict, resolve the problem succinctly, save the chastising for errant maneuvers for admonitions or hanger talk on the ground.
I had an experience at an untowered remote airport. I was in my Searey flying left pattern landings. There were no other aircrafts in the area . As trained ,I announced each pattern procedure and scanned the sky. I set up, announced and entered final when suddenly, a twin bonanza skirted under me and landed. I was forced to go around . When I got on the ground, I approached that same Bonanza at the fuel depo. I checked my anger and calmly asked the two pilots
“Didn’t, you hear me on the radio? I’ve been flying this pattern for the last half hour. ”
“Oh, we don’t have a radio” said the younger pilot. ” I’m a student and this is my instructor”
While I am not a CFI it’s been my experience (flying since 1976) airplanes, seaplanes and Helicopters. flying the pattern especially with a student should be a sterile cockpit meaning minimum talking eyes outside head on a swivel.
Give your student instructions before pattern entry and only use minimum conversation for safety concerns, let the student fly the airplane use “I have the Controls” if necessary.
How many times do we see or experience this ourselves? This potential aircraft conflict is often caused by descending into downwind, yet that practice still seems to be acceptable to some CFIs. BFRs are a great place to suggest corrective actions, but CFIs should be careful to explain why the corrections need to be made. It is much easier to see traffic at the same altitude and avoid conflicts than when that traffic can be lost in the ground clutter.
Remember NO radio is REQUIRED !!!!!! Keep your eyes out of the airplane !!! And no one is REQUIRED to say a thing ….
Thank you Steve. Not all airplanes have radios!!!
and sometimes they are tuned to the incorrect frequency (hasn’t this happened to us all?).
and sometimes they volume is turned down.
and sometimes there is a lot of non-essential chatter on the frequency.
and sometimes (add your own here.__________)
Steve, David, and Randy….
Thumbs Up!