This is an excerpt from a report made to the Aviation Safety Reporting System. The narrative is written by the pilot, rather than FAA or NTSB officials. To maintain anonymity, many details, such as aircraft model or airport, are often scrubbed from the reports.
Departed ZZZ with IFR flight plan to KGYY with destination of C77.
Cancelled IFR with South Bend Approach due to no access to Chicago Class B airspace for GA flights.
Climbed to 10.5 to go over top of Chicago Class B and approaching Lake Michigan requested VFR flight following to remain within gliding distance of the shoreline.
Shortly thereafter was vectored by ATC to turn further north whereby I advised ATC this was beyond gliding distance to shore.
As a condition of continued ATC flight following services, I had to accept the turn or services would be terminated. So continued the flight out of gliding distance of the shoreline for approximately seven minutes while asking for easterly turn toward the shoreline. Floatation/lifevest on board does not make this a safe or acceptable practice.
Proceeded over the top of Chicago Class B at 10.5 navigating direct to C77 Poplar Grove and three 737s at 11000 caused wake turbulence advisories to be issued by ATC.
After flying through the first wake I requested descent and with no traffic below/ahead ATC refused the descent approval to enter the Chicago Class B.
Continued through wake of second 737 however avoided the third 737.
My flight was trapped between the top of the Class B at 10,000 feet and heavy traffic at 11,000 feet, resulting in an unsafe condition with no clear solution.
Chicago ATC practice is to exclude GA aircraft from Class B access as a standard practice even though no published policy exists in the TRACON facility manual. This exclusion of GA aircraft from Class B access created the above unsafe flight operations for this flight and creates unnecessary risk for GA aircraft operations daily.
A survey I took of GA pilots in the Chicago area found the above over water and wake turbulence exposure risks occur on occasion.
Please use this report as the basis to begin creation of solutions to the above issues.
Primary Problem: Procedure
ACN: 1936972
I flew my 231 for many years out of SUS to airports in and around Chicago , IFR of course, without the slightest problem ever . Encountered very accommodating controllers in case a special request had to be made , even on the way out back to SUS . I guess they liked my German accent !!!
It was a much bigger issue to get back into SUS when they wanted me down to 4000 about 50 mls out , had to sweet talk my way around that more often than not . If you don’t like the way you are being handled by ATC in the US , go fly somewhere else,.
Flight following is your choice. It’s up to the PIC to safely operate your aircraft. You make the call on the turn and FF was more important than glidng distance to you. With ADSB just fly VFR, stay out of the bravo. The reason there is a class B airspace is the danger small planes pose to the transport category aircraft in it. Is comical the you’re whining about not being let into the busiest airspace in the US. This is not an airspace problem, but a pilot problem. You have options as the PIC.
Hey folks, great to go under those Class B shelves around Chicago but be very careful and remember you’ll find all kinds of traffic lurking down there with you. They’ve added notices on the charts that jets coming into Midway over the lake from the East may be under the class B shelf – I think they plan to adjust Midways Class C accordingly to contain these folks. Also remember that just because you are on flight following does not mean they will call traffic for you- they will most likely but under no circumstances rely upon it.
As an aerial photographer, I often fly around the O’hare Class B and Midway Class C, with rarely a problem from Tracon or any ATC facility. The poster put himself in a very busy area with numerous airliners. Let this be a lesson of legal does not always mean safe. ATCs’ priority is to coordinate IFR flights and keep them separated from VFR aircraft. Being on flight following was wise, but you are low man on their totem pole. If you were going from Gary to Poplar Grove, it doesn’t make sense to be on the east side of the Class B. If anything, you should have been on the west side of it heading northwest for Poplar Grove, not north.
Never flown that far east but my limited understanding and experience is the airspace above a class b should be quieter than around it. Seems odd that airliners are getting routed 1k ft above the bravo. Being from a mountainous area flying at 12k or quick descents are not unusual for me. Because of those thoughts I find no fault with the pilots flight planning. I do wonder why the pilot followed instructions they deemed dangerous. I don’t blame atc for not allowing them through the bravo though since they weren’t landing at an airport under it, atc is not required to let them in.
“Please use this report as the basis to begin creation of solutions to the above issues.”
Lots of interesting comments; many missing the point completely.
Probably going over the top of Chicago Class B in an ‘altitude-challenged’ plane wasn’t the smartest thing to do…however:
“As a condition of continued ATC flight following services, I had to accept the turn or services would be terminated.”
Exactly! Flight Following is an optional service…not a requirement. If it’s not working for you, don’t use it. If they give you a vector (‘offshore’ in this case) that makes you uncomfortable; try “Unable“.
What’s the field elevation there? Less than 500′? Likely not. Negates your 3000 AGL theory.
A 77 mile flight, per Foreflight. Going south around the B and staying at 3000-3500 under the B would have added three (3) miles to the route.
East-West rule starts at 3000 AGL, so yes, 3500 would have been an appropriate altitude.
Midway 620′ AMSL. Busted.
Negligent flight planning. he should be required to do 2 to 4 hours of flight training continuing education within 90 days or his license suspended until completion. his current attitude is a danger pilot as well as himself.
Wow dude, sounds like you’re lucky to be alive. Along with a boatload of airline passengers and crew.
When did you are or you’re become your?
Maybe I missed something in eighth grade English class.
I learned to fly at Milwaukee Timmerman and eventually came back to instruct out of the same airport. One of my favorite optional cross countries with students was to fly the VFR flyways and loop around Chicago. It gave them confidence to navigate and communicate around busy airspace. VFR traffic is at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to ATC priority. You do not own the Bravo airspace even in a GA jet let alone a single engine piston. Take the L and go around or under next time.
I’ve flown around Chicago a couple times, and I did not experience any problems. I usually follow the shoreline UNDERNEATH the Bravo airspace, and routinely get cleared into the Bravo when I pass the approach corridor into Midway.
The shoreline itself is extremely busy inside the Bravo, and I totally understand why they wouldn’t allow a descent through it.
Also, you can always tell ATC that you are unable. In my experience, if you ask nicely, most of the controllers will work towards a mutually acceptable solution. But remember, they see more than is on your fishfinder, and may jave better situational awareness, so they might not always be able to accomodate your wish not to fly feet wet.
Think of Class B airspace as a mountain…..go around it!
I have only flown in the Chitown area once, landed at KCGX (yes, I’m old!) and overnighted before continuing westward, I don’t recall having any particular issues with ATC. This was pre-9/11 and was shuttling my plane from Florida to Washington State with a lot of out of the way sightseeing, including DC and NYC, no problems anywhere.
Sounds like yet another reason to never live there, as if I needed one. Little planes have every right to fly to their destination without undue delays as the big boys, and I sure wouldn’t take being politely told to shut up and go away very well.
Can you say ‘Pop-up IFR?’…
“…Little planes have every right to fly to their destination without undue delays as the big boys…” So, one single engine airplane should be able to fly direct without undue delay but half a dozen or maybe more airliners should to vectored around the small airplane? ATC should delay possibly hundreds of passengers to accommodate three or four in the piston powered GA airplane? “Safe, orderly, expeditiously” is the mantra for ATC. There is nothing orderly or expeditious about moving several airplanes to accommodate one, plus such a move might introduce an element of risk. It is much more in keeping with ATC’s mantra to move the one oddball.
We all know the rules for class B airspace, why does the reporter think they shouldn’t apply to him?
“Cancelled IFR with South Bend Approach due to no access to Chicago Class B airspace for GA flights.” I would like more information on the “lack of access” to class B airspace for GA flights. Chicago approach airspace is stratified according to destination. Coming from the east GYY traffic would be cleared to 3000′ by South Bend approach then handed off to Chicago approach for handling into GYY. Sounds like the reporter didn’t want to descend because he knew that he really wasn’t going to GYY but to C77.
25 years at Chicago ARTCC
I think they should have closed ORD so you could feel comfortable. Get a peddle plane
“Cancelled IFR with South Bend Approach due to no access to Chicago Class B airspace for GA flights.” Did it occur to you that this might be a mistake to do?
There is ALWAYS room for IFR traffic. Now, it might not be via the routing you prefer or even can accept with your fuel or equipment but they have to route you to a destination somehow provided the destination isn’t closed Or airspace restricted. Think of it this way, if you were IMC are you expected to just find your own way to C77?
Chicago will handle you IFR; they have to. They might not be happy about it. You might not be a priority…but they will get you to where you are trying to go albeit on a route you might not like but works for ORD flow. When you cancel IFR you’re on your own.
I’m an ATP and fly out of ORD all the time. I’ve also flight instructed in the Chicago area for over 20 years. I know the controllers are swamped and aren’t really happy to have to handle GA. But they do. If you can’t accept something don’t be afraid to say unable until you get something you can do.
Going over the top of the Bravo from KGYY to C77 VFR was a poor choice—not illegal in any way but IMHO, not the best ADM. I am based close to C77 and your plan would have meant a roughly 1500 fpm descent into C77 in order to avoid the Bravo. A better plan might have been to cancel at KGYY, descend to 3500’ and go straight over KLOT then direct. This would have kept you clear of the Bravo, clear of KMDW’s Charlie and above/between both KDPA and KARR Deltas. You could still have gotten FF and probably not have to accept any vectors; you and your passengers wouldn’t have sore eardrums; you’d have many decent options to glide to a runway in case of engine trouble; no worry of having to use your life vests for an icy dip in Lake Michigan; and it would have cost you what—a gallon of fuel (maybe) and 3 or 4 minutes of flight time? Another option would have been to cancel outside of GYY, descend to 2,500’ or 2,000’ (i typically fly it at 1200’-1500’), hug the shoreline all the way to about WARPI, and then hang a left direct to C77 (I do this all the time in both directions when the weather is good—It’s one of the best skylines anywhere and you can give your pax an absolutely stunning, up close and personal view. ATC is very good about FF along this route—you just need to mind the Soldier Field, Wrigley Field, and Ryan Field TFRs that come up from time to time and the traffic going in and out of KPWK and KUGN.
You made a bad choice — it happens. Learn from it and do better next time 🙂
John G,
That was my thinking. Going from KGYY to C77 by flying at 3500’ under the Class B would have been a shorter distance than going over the Class B along the shoreline with out worry about getting too far out over Lake Michigan. Sounds like not all options were considered during preflight planning.
ATC wasn’t unsafe, you were! Evidently your the only one flying. Your correct ATC isn’t going to let you into the class B at ORD because of the amount of traffic. Your choices are under, around or over. Unless you fly at 02:00am when things are quite. Learn to be a captain and what your reasonable options are!
1. If you conducted a proper preflight planing scenario you would have known how busy Chicago was and avoided the situation.
2. Separation and safety is more important than your desire to go thru or above a heavy traffic area.
3. Would you complain if ATC vectored you around heavy T-storms?
4. Maybe you should try another hobby if you think this is all about you.
Because of the weather, I avoid commercial flights that connect through ORD altogether. One time I was stuck on the ground waiting for departure for four and a half hours. This was in the middle of the night.
I live in the DC area and had a C210 based at HEF back in the 90s prior to 9-11 and the advent of the SFRA.
At least at that time, I had no trouble negotiating the Class B airspace around WAS although I was filing IFR most of the time. But that was not always the case. I used to take friends who visited on tours around the mall at 1000 feet which was below RADAR coverage. As long as I avoided peak times, DCA tower and approach were always helpful with this. I was VFR.
I got similar help from IAD and DCA in the evenings of the 4th of July when I would take friends up and circle near College Park. We would see the DC, Baltimore and local fireworks from the air which is a fun and interesting way to do it.
Unfortunately, those days are gone now that the unnecessary (a whole other discussion) SFRA is in place.
The OP choices are to route the flight outside Class B airspace and/or cancel flight following to fly the altitude and routing preferred. It’s a busy Class B and the same occurs with most Class Bs. Get over yourself. They exist for airline operations so one should expect turbulence and high volume of arriving and departing aircraft by operating too closely.
DFW doesn’t seem to have these problems. Well they didn’t when I lived there flying across DFW east-west (mid-2000s to 2012). And with Love and DFW handling mixed traffic that are all doing STARs and SIDS, I don’t see why OHare is such an exception. Even [Ex-]LAX has VFR corridors the last time I looked at “charts” in that area.
It was interesting, DFW approach would tell you, going west to east, fly over the west tower direct to the east tower and then give you vectors as needed. And the reverse going east to west.
Wilbur,
except for Osh season, Ord approach is more stubborn and unhelpful than any ARTCC in the country.
They could learn from DFW, ATL, etc..
My only GA experience with Chicago Class B was a flight probably 13 years ago from Duluth to the east coast. Even IFR, I was required to fly over a couple of fixes to maintain a good buffer to the west and south.
Chicago ATC will tell you that the “flows” into and out of the Class B preclude the development of VFR corridors.
Flying under the shelf along the lakeshore N-S is a great view and safer for folks on the ground, but does not leave the single-engine pilot and pax many options.
Flying under the shelf over land leaves pilot, pax, and potentially unfortunate folks on the ground with few options. This is a necessary evil when going to airports within the Mode C veil.
Living in MKE and flying around Chicago, I’ve resigned myself to 6k and higher and *just* outside the Class B. I rarely even do FF anymore, but I stay on the right freqs and monitor ADS-B traffic. When I file IFR, I just file T265.
I, too, wish it worked differently, but there seems little interest in improving.
This is nothing new, in 1985 I left MSP for KMKG in a c 185 VFR, I wanted to cut the bottom of the lake so over the top of ORD @ 9500 was a great idea, well not so fast, CHi tracon was not wanting me near ORD but at that time I was legal, just as I passed ORD a 727 at 9000 and 12:00 went under me, no callout from tracon, and let me tell you a United 727 is a big airplane when it’s 500 ft. Below you. At that time I was flying in to ORD on a regular basis IFR with my job and other than being busy always had good results, my advice is stay away from CHI tracon VFR.
Wants to fly VFR over/ through some of the busiest airspace in the county, then complains that it’s busy and full of jets. Brilliant.
Wow! The route from GYY to C77 takes you directly over Midway and just south of O’Hare, smack though the heart of Chicago Class B airspace. Chicago is one of the busiest airspaces in the country, and you think ATC is at fault for putting you at risk? Going over the top at 10,500 is certainly an option but even at that altitude things can get dicey. Asking for flight following can pose some restrictions, and unwanted vectoring. Best to go over without flight following and use your ADS-B in for traffic and keep your head on a swivel. The best way to avoid conflict is to avoid the airspace altogether, and go around it. Maybe stay low under the outer shelves to save some time.
Your a brave person to me. I would have avoided the airspace and spent the extra money on fuel. This way I know for a fact that the trip to C77 would be uneventful playing with Wake Turbulence from those Big Boys.
Unreal at the people improperly using your and you’re. LOL
Also interesting that so many GA pilots are ok with being considered “second class” citizens in the NAS and thinking the airlines deserve preferential treatment over General Aviation in a system that is paid for with OUR tax dollars. Allowing ourselves to be considered some kind of lower tier customer to the FAA is one reason GA is being pushed aside and slowly dying out.
Totally agree with this comment. We have equal access to the NAS as any airliner. It’s ATCs job to sort us all out and get us there safely, without undue delays.
Chicago has a bad rep for this. CLT is also difficult.