This is an excerpt from a report made to the Aviation Safety Reporting System. The narrative is written by the pilot, rather than FAA or NTSB officials. To maintain anonymity, many details, such as aircraft model or airport, are often scrubbed from the reports.
During downwind flight within the traffic pattern for Runway 05 at Winter Haven Regional Airport (KGIF) in Florida, a seaplane took off below us into the left downwind portion of the traffic pattern at the non-towered airport.
My instructor took the controls and turned the plane so that I could see the plane departing beneath us and then I resumed controls for the remainder of the flight when I had the traffic in sight.
There is a lake on the southwest corner of the airport where the seaplane departed, but as this was the first time at this airport, my instructor and I were unaware.
I made radio calls entering and throughout the traffic pattern and heard nothing from the seaplane. I realize the seaplane was not required to have/utilize a radio. However, this seemed to represent an unnecessary hazard considering the location of the lake used for seaplane departures and landings.
I write this in the hope that seaplanes no longer be allowed to take off under a traffic pattern of a non-towered airport when the use of radios are not required.
Primary Problem: Airspace Structure
ACN: 2006622
See and be seen. Learned that from my first Flight Instructor, John P. Reaver in 1958. 11,036 hours later, still works!
See and avoid works until there is a mid air.(according to the FAA)
See and avoid works until there is a mid air.
The young lady CFI in a Cherokee on the downwind made several excellent position reports, downwind, base, etc. If the J3S would have been listening on a handheld battery powered radio with intercom/headsets 4 people would still be alive.
That’s exactly right! Central Florida and Southern Florida are the busiest areas for local air traffic; where the majority of flight schools are located. It just doesn’t make any sense not to be seen and heard!!
From the student pilot’s ASRS narrative:
“A final note, my instructor departed the airport without me and told me of other dangerous activities within the traffic pattern of the seemingly busy airport and expressed concern of the safety should we ever decide to fly into that airport again in the future.”
A bit cryptic, but sounds like the CFI realized the errors of his/her ways and left the scene with tail tucked.
Better late than never.
Regardless of the information published, unless one specifically looks up Jack Brown’s Seaplane Base, all the VFR chart indicates is that the lake is approved for seaplane operations. It does not necessarily identify seaplane training. I own a seaplane in southern Indiana and the lakes I go into are depicted on the chart as a seaplane base but there is no seaplane “base” located at any of these lakes. It only means the lakes are approved for seaplane operations.
Jack Brown’s Seaplane base was established in 1963. They continue to operated as if it’s still 1963. It’s time to add radios, ADSB, establish takeoff, and landing procedures with respect to Winter Heaven airport, etc. Winter Heaven has grown in operations since 1963. Maybe it’s time for Jack Brown’s to relocate to another lake well clear of an airport.
There are two issues at play in this scenario. One has to do with radio communications. The other involves seaplane activities in close proximity to the airport in question.
While radios aren’t required in Class G airspace (and the CFI should be well aware of this) handheld units are now light enough, small enough, and inexpensive enough that any pilot should include one in their basic flight toolbox and make use of them when operating, especially in the vicinity of an airport.
Discovering seaplane activity in the vicinity of KGIF (my home field) should never be a surprise to any pilot. The seaplane base is clearly labeled on the VFR sectional chart as being co-located to the airport. Additionally, the chart supplement states unequivocally, …glider aircraft operate on and in the vicinity of airport. Brown’s Seaplane Base located on adjacent lake. Numerous aircraft operating without radios in vicinity of airport and seaplane base.
The responsibility of the pilots of all aircraft are to know-before-you-go, and see-and-avoid. The first was clearly not taken seriously before this flight was initiated. Better preparation prior to flight is the solution.
ABSOLUTELY Correct. Time to suck it up and stop whining. Cut the BS and become a Real piolt.
I’m guessing the seaplane departed the downwind pattern without reaching pattern altitude and therefore was no conflict…correct?
The SEL pilots did see and avoid, so they were not oblivious. I find it hard to believe that anyone would defend entering a traffic pattern below pattern altitude, however.
This knee-jerk reaction to the problem seems to be like so many other circumstances in society. ‘Let’s just pass a law, that will solve the problem of ignorance and carelessness.’
While there is no excuse for not knowing about the sea plane base, there is also no excuse for the seaplane pilot operating in a manner that could cause interference with the area traffic without using a radio considering the conflict possibility.
There was a time when aircraft without electric systems could be excused for not having a radio, Portable electronics now precludes that notion. The use of a radio is common sense in any environment where operations are near other aircraft.
Totally agree.
Flying without a radio is just stupid.
They are cheap and easily accessible.
If you think flying without listening is a cool idea then you would just as easily agree that flying without looking is just as smart.
I mean you will at least be consistent, right?
I concur with Dale. The most important thing we can do as pilots it to be fully aware of the environment we fly in. With digital technology and the vast quantity of resources to draw from, there is no longer an excuse for “Not Knowing”. Our airspace is a wonderful resource ment to be shared with all forms of aviation in a safe integrated manner. A well planned flight is a safe flight. Fly safe my friend!
The real hazard here is NOT the seaplane base, rather the fact that two pilots (one an instructor!) were “unaware” of the seaplane base. Obviously they failed to comply with CFR 14 part 91.103.
The seaplane base has been there since 1963 and is depicted on the VFR Chart.
Also mentioned on ForeFlight in the remarks section for Winter Haven as well as in the Chart Supplement (AFD).
Please do your homework before flying…
I totally disagree that the root cause of this problem at KGIF is just pilots not being “aware” of the seaplane base although of course it doesn’t help if they are not. With this attitude as to the cause of conflicts at this airport, nothing will be resolved.
I fly to that airport regularly and although never had a close call with the seaplane operators, I can see this to be an issue. And to me the number one problem is their insistence in not using a radio.
Traffic pattern procedures are designed to make it easy for those flying them to identify and avoid other traffic. The seaplane base essentially provides an environment with two concurrent and intersecting landing runways and patterns. People may be aware that there is an airplane base but they may not be aware of the pattern flown by the seaplanes and were to expect a conflicting aircraft to be at a given time.
I don’t believe that not allowing the base to be there is the solution (although if they are not proactive in proposing a solution maybe they should be shut down). But having a commercial training operation in a busy airport and with conflicting patterns WITH NO RADIO is simply irresponsible and down right negligent.
I do fly an ultralight in a busy uncontrolledly airport were the use of radio, although not mandatory, is “strongly” encouraged. And by this it is meant that unless you want to be lynched by the people flying there you better get and use at least a cheap portable radio (which I got for free from a friend).
Please think about solutions. 4 people died at KGIF because a continued insistence in not sitting down and finding an effective solution to this problem. I do hope that a solution is found that keeps this airport safe and it’s iconic seaplane training base open.
Chris