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Sorry guys…

By General Aviation News Staff · February 4, 2025 · 8 Comments

This is an excerpt from a report made to the Aviation Safety Reporting System. The narrative is written by the pilot, rather than FAA or NTSB officials. To maintain anonymity, many details, such as aircraft model or airport, are often scrubbed from the reports.

I was providing instruction to a student in a Cessna 172. We were in a packed pattern at Bend Municipal Airport (KBDN) in Oregon practicing landings when a Citation II S2 pulled onto the runway while we were on short final. There were about three aircraft in the pattern behind us.

The Citation pilots queried the base traffic how far out they were, but I don’t think they realized we were on short final.

I made radio calls indicating our position prior to the runway incursion.

The Citation pilot radioed that they were going to line up and wait, then said “sorry guys” over the radio.

In an effort to show my student good Aeronautical Decision Making (ADM), I took controls and side stepped to the west over Taxiway A to go around.

The Citation took off anyways and made an early right crosswind in front of us, causing us to go through their wake.

No damage or injuries and we made a normal landing afterwards.

Primary Problem: Human Factors

ACN: 2149407

When you click on the link it will take you to the ASRS Online Database. Click on Report Number and put the ACN in the search box, then click Search. On that page, click on “view only the 1 most recent report.”


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Comments

  1. Darrrell Hay says

    February 5, 2025 at 10:53 am

    Feels like there is a lot of negativity and judging here by using the term line up and wait at non towered airport. For example consider 33R at S43 (Harvey Field). The way the taxiway and hold short is aligned parallel with the runway, and no turn perpendicular, you cannot see the end of the runway and the downwind, base and final at the same time while not actually on the runway. Your back is to the traffic rolling out. You must wait for landing traffic to clear before departure, but you cannot see that aircraft has cleared until you go past the hold short, onto the runway, and line up. So one must ensure there is no traffic on base or final, wait for landing traffic to pass by the numbers, announce, taxi out onto runway to line up, check runway, then depart when clear. Line up and wait is very appropriate, as you wait for the landing traffic to clear.

    Reply
  2. Tom Curran says

    February 5, 2025 at 10:18 am

    Did the Citation Driver really not see the 172 on short final…and was sincerely apologetic for the runway “incursion”?

    Possibly.

    Or was he just a rich, entitled jet jockey, with no concern for other traffic in the “packed” Bend pattern?

    Possibly…but he “queried the base traffic how far out they were”.

    Regardless, I also agree that planning to “line up and wait” at a non-towered airport makes me question his overall experience and ADM.

    OTOH:

    None of these are reasons why the Cessna 172 encountered “wake turbulence” in the traffic pattern.

    That was caused by the 305-hour CFI offsetting his “go-around” on the wrong side of the runway.

    The traffic pattern at Bend is west of the runway: Rwy 16 has right traffic, and Runway 34 has left traffic.

    Taxiway A runs parallel to the runway…on the west side.

    Based on the CFI’s narrative, they were using Rwy 16. By offsetting his go-around to the west, over Taxiway A, he set himself up to be a conflict with the jet turning an “early right crosswind” in front of him.

    I’ll wager the Citation pilot had no idea the 172 was actually inside his turn.

    That’s exactly why when you execute a go-around…offset to the opposite side of the runway from the downwind leg.

    Reply
  3. Cary Alburn says

    February 5, 2025 at 10:07 am

    Really stupid Citation pilot. There is no “line up and wait” at non-towered airports. Turning your back to incoming traffic has to be the height of terrible ADM!

    Reply
  4. Matt Thurber says

    February 5, 2025 at 7:41 am

    For those who insist on saying they are going to “line up and wait” at a non-tower airport, that is a procedure only for towered airports.

    Reply
  5. WKTaylor says

    February 5, 2025 at 7:38 am

    “The Citation pilot radioed that they were going to line up and wait, then said “sorry guys” over the radio.”… = I was too much of a hurry… my bad… be aware… I will depart the runway… by taking off… immediately????

    I wonder if an informal wall-of shame-fame in the airport ops… pilots posting dates, Type/N-numbers/call-signs, transgressions, etc, could be useful…for others to be wary-of [identify] these aircraft/characters… would be of any value?

    Reply
  6. Tammy Tarmac says

    February 5, 2025 at 7:34 am

    Or English

    Reply
  7. WKTaylor says

    February 5, 2025 at 7:26 am

    The Citation pilot radioed that they were going to line up and wait, then said “sorry guys” over the radio…. = [meaning]: I made a mistake?

    or…

    The Citation pilot radioed that they were going to line up and wait, then said “sorry guys” over the radio…. = [meaning]: I’ll be out-of-the-way [by taking off] as soon as possible?

    Reply
  8. Are Cee says

    February 5, 2025 at 5:35 am

    I’d bet the Citation guy did i NOT get his start in G.A.

    Reply

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