The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) wants to hear from anyone who has ever taken flying lessons, asking for their input at a series of regional meetings that kicks off May 24 in Fairfield, N.J., followed by meetings in Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Orlando.
AOPA launched the Flight Training Student Retention Initiative in 2010 to help increase the percentage of students who earn a pilot certificate. From May through September this year, the association is following up on the independent study it commissioned on the flight training experience with meetings in six metro areas around the United States.
“Member and flight training provider input is critical to developing and prioritizing real-world solutions,” said Jennifer Storm, AOPA director of flight training initiatives. “We’re holding regional meetings so we can make it more convenient for as many stakeholders as possible to participate in this important process.”
Up to 80% of those who start flight training do not earn a pilot certificate, the study found. AOPA’s flight training initiative is working to help more student pilots succeed by developing resources and programs that improve the flight training experience. The initiative is a collaborative effort to reverse the decline in the pilot population and ultimately strengthen general aviation.
AOPA will hold two meetings in each city, one for the aviation community and one for flight training providers. The aviation community meetings offer members, pilots, student pilots, and aviation businesses other than flight schools an opportunity to hear more about the initiative and share their thoughts on steps that should be taken to help more students become certificated pilots. AOPA is honoring the request of those actively providing flight training by holding separate, dedicated meetings for flight school owners, managers, and flight instructors.
The first aviation community meeting, in New Jersey, will take place on May 24 from 7 to 9 p.m. at the Crowne Plaza Hotel—Fairfield. In order to provide adequate seating, materials, and refreshments, attendees are encouraged to register online. Additional dates and venues will be posted on the initiative web page, and online registration will become available as dates and locations are confirmed.
I too had great difficulty completing my license. I stopped and started several times. Sometimes it was due to family issues and life just getting in the way, and others it was frustration. Starting and stopping and starting again was very hard and I felt I was going over the same material over and over again. I have had 5 instructors…again, some were good, some bad but unfortunately when you begin this endeavor, you do no know how to tell the difference. I wasted a lot of money with my first instructor and didn’t realize it until much later. There needs to be better criteria to control the apparent hour building that goes on at new pilots expense.
I am happy to say, though, that I finally acquired my license by going to an accelerated course in Florida. This worked for me because it was a continuous flow of eat, breathe, sleep flying. With all the previous hours I had accumulated, this was ideal. I do not think, however, that it is for everyone. I do not see how anyone could do this with no previous knowledge or experience.
I am not sure I would have ever finished if I had not done this.
As a student going rough a local instructor, financing my flying was the biggest issue. Now that I am a private pilot and working as a mechanic at a large air cargo operation, there are many guys who started taking lessons then quit because of the attitude of the instructor (teach to get the hours to get into the airlines), cost, and aircraft type/availability. One of the problems I have as an instrument student is the availability of ifr certified aircraft with a CFII.
I have taken one flight orrientation flight and loved it. My parents flew and i have always wanted to fly but no money for it due to children and just out of the service in 1970. I used to go to the airport every so often to see if there was something i could do to earn myself a flight lesson. The only response i got was to barrow monies for it. I am retired now and can not afford it but still want to get my pilots certificate. I also have tried to get a sponser for the lessons and no takers. I figure they feel i am too old.
Many very good replies above hitting the mark on multiple causes.
I do believe the high cost is definately a factor, BUT not the primary factor. That’s an easy, and obvious, cop-out too often touted (mainly by instructors/flight schools) while they choose to gloss over, or ignore their contributions to the problem.
The 3rd Class medical – should be eliminated in my, and many others, opinion. Just the cost alone of obtaining a SI is often prohibitive, and the stringent requirements are many times unreasonable — not just my opinion, but more than one MD has said the same thing. I ask you: is the same medical condition any less dangerous piloting Light Sport or driving an SUV down an interstate at 70 mph than piloting a Piper Warrior or Cessna 172?? Come on, let’s be reasonable. The 3rd Class medical takes many out of aviation needlessly. Statistics have shown medical condtions have an almost nil effect on the accident/incident rate including Sport Pilots who are not required to have a medical at all.
While there are many very good instructors/schools, there are also far too many who are not. Ones who basically rip students off by trying to milk more hours out of them, have elitest attitudes. Having a CFI certicate does not automatically mean one is a good instructor. A beginning student doesn’t know what to look for in most cases, and too often finds out the hard way after the fact. Time and time I’ve known of instructors low-balling the estimated cost and time required to a starry-eyed prospective new student, and all too often the instructors primary interest of flying charters (last second cancelled lessons) and building hours becomes more and more apparent after the student gets 15 or more hours into it.
I persevered in earning my private certificate a year ago, but in doing so I received an education in far more than piloting. Having flown with 6 different instructors I assure you there is a vast difference between good and bad ones…. one of the six was excellent and if it wasn’t for him I could have been one of the 80%, one was not good in several ways including less than desirable ADM (a 20-something with a huge ego but was excellent at smoozing his boss), and the other four were decent to mediocre.
But let’s face it, the success rate will never be 100% nor should it. Some find out too late flying isn’t for them, some simply don’t have what it takes, and others won’t be able to afford it even if the cost is halved.
One last point — the examiner I had for my checkride has a reputation for being very tough and a corresponding relatively high failure rate, but that aspect I feel is as it should be. To my knowledge none of the students he’s passed have had an accident.
This is my second shot at a private pilots licence. At 28 yrs old I went about as far as you could go and not finish. I blamed it on the money, but the real reason was that I was not comfortable with the training I had received, and thought I would be better off not finishing. (I have never told anyone that truth before.)
Fast forward to 50 yrs old. Always regretted not finishing, I jumped back in, found an instructor whom I thought was very good. The more I learned, the more I realized I was only getting the very minimum I would need to get a certificate. So, it was really the same situation all over again, not feeling confident in the training I was paying good money for.
I found another independent instructor. This guy could not be more a more professional pilot, instructor and concerned teacher. Insisting on accuracy where others have been satisfied with much less. He has taken the time to find out what I know, and built upon that, quickly realizing what has been left out of my training. This type of instructor, I suspect, is very rare.
Aviation is like any other profession in 2011. There are a lot of qualified instructors that just do not care. You need to be responsible for the decision of who you hire and pay. It is not an easy thing to do, to learn to fly. Make sure you get the right person to teach you.
Susan,
You are, sadly, not atypical. If they pick up on that you have the money, they will make you pay more by not letting you demonstrate your skills, and dragging out the instruction. This is unethical, but common. Also, many of these so called, “instuctors’ have no teaching ability. Yes, they can fly an airplane, but teaching or learning about how to teach, is not in the agenda of many. How to teach, and bad teaching is something that is in our national debate. It needs to be part of the CFI agenda rather than just technical skills.
The ever increasing regulations haven’t helped anything, either. In 1969 the FAR book was about 1/2 inch thick. The weather book was even thinner. The aircraft manual was pretty thin, too. Now, all written material could easily be stacked over 8 inches high. That’s a lot of rote memorizing to undertake for a hobby. If you are headed towards commercial flying then it might be justified as part of the educational process.
The 1965 C150 takes the same skill to fly now now as it did 40 years ago. However, the costs, the written material, the government’s attitude, all are now placing much higher demands on an individual regards of their airmanship skills.
As noted above, the “old boy’s school” and jargon don’t help either.
Likewise, the sylabus for flight training seems to be all over the place. No student knows the exact timetable from start to finish even though nearly every school lists the FAA hour requirements. When you get to 20 hours and you still haven’t soloed, despite what the regs are, it starts to get discouraging.
A better AOPA study might be to find out at what point students give up.
I have been struggling to get my license for 2 years and have been a member of AOPA for a year and a half. Funny how I find out about the meeting to be held tomorrow night by General Aviation News. At any rate, after 200 (yeah multiply by $200) hours of flight time and sustained effort, I am still struggling with one CFI after the other…who have promised me they could teach me to fly in a reasonable period of time. I am smart and dedicated. Honestly, the CFIs I have had to date have been unscrupulous and unethical…80 hours to solo? how about a cross country to Martha’s Vineyard? 2.5K for that lesson. How about the guy who soloed me after 2 hours flying with him ( after 140 hours of my previous training) then told me how they were robbing me blind and then charged me for 110 hours….you read it right. 110 hours of ground time. This is after scoring 92 on the written exam. Really, the field is rife with unethical instructors. Can they be sued for malpractice?
I learned to fly back in the mid seventies when it was cheaper that it is now. I committed to learning to fly even if I had to sacrifice eating. I was determined to get my private pilot’s license and made my goals of solo in 10 and check ride in 70 hours. Like anything worthwile, goals must be set and a committment made for sucess to be achieved. A good instructor, who really cares about turing out a good, safe pilot sure beats the CFI time builder.
Want to make flying more affordable? I have a few suggestions that may encourage a pilot wantabee.
1. Get rid of the third class medical. It means nothing if one can fly a more complicated LSA without one. Lots of experienced pilots are getting shot down for trivial issues while performing otherwise arduous tasks everyday. The flight characteristics of some Light sport aircraft are less forgiving than classic two place trainers.
2. The classic two and four place trainers need to be classified in the light sport category as not only are they less expensive to purchase, but are available at the FBO’s while most LSAs are not. Are they not used primarily for light sport also?
3. Most new students cannot afford a new Cirrus or what have you for recreational flying. The older, more affordable classics would keep more pilots in the air at a much reduced financial outlay. A good, used airplane should cost no more than one would expect to pay for a truck.
4. Getting a tail dragger endorsement should be part of the private training. It would improve one’s handling of the aircraft, thus reducing the accident rate.
5. AOPA needs to get even more actively involved in stopping the closing of the small airports, grass runways etc, that are used by the majority of pilots not pursuing commercial ventures.
6. Airports need a marketing program to promote the advantages to the community they serve. AOPA certainly could help out in that venue.
7. Hanger rents in the big city are getting out of sight. Even a tie down for a hundred a month is ridulous. That does not encourage one to buy an airplane.
Finally, I fly because I love the freedom it gives and the skills I maintain. I have had excellent training and I own an airplane that I rebuilt from the ground up. I have more invested in it that I will ever get back, but I know my bird and what it will do. I don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t chase women, and do not waste what little money I have set aside for flying. My advice, get your priorities in order, set your goal and go for it. One final word, the FAA need to be more user friendly. Stop treating pilots like criminals for inadvertant mistakes. Work with those who err in their ways. Punishment only creates animosity. Flying should be and can be fun, but everyone needs to work together to get it that way.
To Mark who said in part, “If AOPA were serious (and not merely on a membership drive) it would lobby like hell to repeal the 3rd class medical requirement.” The question about AOPA, is there a conflict of interest? They make money on their medical assist progarms, but at the same time claim to want to eliminate some the stringent requirements of the third class medical. Obamaspeak, or are they truly serious about the medical issue?
This will be short and sweet, cost, more cost, and even more cost. There that wasn’t hard was it.
I am very interested in participating in this event. One of the biggest problems I incountered was aviation companies of FBO’s that offer training and they have young instructors who are there it just build their time on my dime. I received very little ground school at all. they just wanted to get into the air and log time. then when they got their hours they would quit and go on to a higher paying job. I literally went threw 3 different instructors in 4 months, all of them with different methods of teaching. I was more confused than before I started. I quit my instructions for about 6 months and was heart broken because I wanted to fly so much. I finally found an individual who was just a pure instructor and had no commercial ambitions. I got all my ground school in and my written test out of the way and then flying made a whole lot more sense to me. I would love to share this story with AOPA if they are interested.
From my personal experience as a student (now in the process of working on my Commercial Pilot certificate) it has to be the cost, dedication of the student, and the instructor. In many ways, flying is the rich mans sport. At basically $140-160 an hour (plane+instructor), it is more expensive than college. And with the weak economy, even those who do own a flight school must cover their cost to do business. Plus, the high price of oil leads to a high price for aviation fuel. Second, it is student dedication. I myself quit twice while in the process of obtaining my Private Pilot certificate. Doing this actually was more expensive, because of the cost of refresher training. So, once you start any flight training, do not get discouraged. Keep on studying and try to read everything related to aviation. A good pilot is always learning! Finally, find yourself a good instructor. I am blessed with an instructor who actually cares about his students. Watch out for young instructors who only care about running up their hours for the regionals. I am not saying that all 25 year old instructors are bad. However, make sure that while they are using their students to run up their hours, they also care about their students outcome.
There are multiple reasons why I am not flying right now. For one, why should I have to drive to Frederick MD for evert meeting, when I live near Gettysburg, and was flying out of Thomasville, PA.? I have been flying out of York/Thomasville Airport, and I can’t even get the owners to put together a decent ground school for shift workers, not to mention that their 172’s cost me around $200.00 an hour including fuel and CFI. Too expensive.
It’s easier to hold meetings than to take action. The barriers to obtaining a pilot’s license are the same as they were when you received yours, except the cost is absurd. Why would an intelligent (a presumably required but surprisingly frequently unmet criterion) 45-60 yo male (the interested group with the $) buy a Cessna 172 for $400,000 with a 2 year warranty and then wait to resell it for $250,000 after the FAA rips his medical away for taking Prozac for a month when his mother died (or some similarly absurd medical reason) ???? Why would the same person buy a Light Sport for 150K so that he can buzz around under 10,000 ft MSL day VFR ??? Why would this same person buy a plane when every six months the ‘user fee’ monster pops back onto AOPA front page ? Or some left-wing tree huggers propose legislation to outlaw fuel ????
The trite answer is always ‘you have to love it’. To that I say ‘save GA with love’.
If AOPA were serious (and not merely on a membership drive) it would lobby like hell to repeal the 3rd class medical requirement (= Light Sport medical requirement) and work with ‘industry’ to build a 172 for 95K and a Cirrus GTS for 195K – or let the Chinese do it.
– Got It ? Now adjourn the meeting and earn our dues.
– Marc
flying lessons are expensive and it doesn’t help when instructors draw out the process so they can make more money. Their reasoning is that the student is not ready – that may be the case. But when you are told you performed the exercise correctly – many times – and still repeat it then you start questioning the process.
Hi Committee Members;
I’m a person who recently earned a Light Sport License at the age of 70. This is my first license. ( I am not “stepping down” from a private pilot’s licence.) Here’s what I think are stumbling blocks for many to become attracted to and actually get a license. This may hurt some feelings. I apologise, but will continue in the interest of increasing the pilot population.
1. Pilots speak a different language than English. It’s not bad weather, it’s IFR. We have NOTAMS, PIREPS, WX and many other abbreviations. Means nothing to the person who might be interested in learning to fly. Pilots and instructors who want to increase the pilot population ought to speak plain English, when trying to include a new person in their conversation.
2. Some pilots are elitist. Now I know that less than 1% of the population have managed to obtain pilot credentials. However the same could be said for actors, musicians, ball players, doctors, dentists, and mountain climbers. You, the pilot, don’t like it when these folks look down on you; so don’t do it (or appear to do it) to them.
3. The cost. It’s usually more than twice the figure estimated by the flight school at the beginning. I presume many folks simply run out of money.
4. The time. Same story. About twice what was originally expected. And while in the process, it is very difficult to get a feeling for exactly where is the “end of the tunnel”. I presume many folks feel they will never get there.
5. Airports are not as friendly as they once were. We all know the reasons, but it’s true, none the less.
6. This leads us to the FAA. Latest joke about sums it up: “We’re not happy, until you’re not happy”. Instead of functioning like the Coast Guard (which provides a similar service with respect to boats), the FAA is more like the IRS. They carry a small carrot and a big stick. Many people, who could have gone either way, decide to buy a boat to cut down on the headaches.
So summarizing:
1. Speak plain English.
2. Be inclusive, not elitist.
3. Get through the process efficiently ($ and time).
4. Make your operation as friendly as possible. Likewise, influence your airport, if you can.
5. Inform students what to expect from the FAA verbal test and checkride.
Cheers! Stu.
The problem is simple. Cost. It cost way too much to fly for “fun”. Hell, it cost too much to even take a car for a joy ride anymore. No amount of talking or meetings will change anything unless the cost of flying a trainer goes down to under 100 dollars per hour – with instructor.
Is there any way that a online form could be created to gather information from those of us who would like to give comment relative to your flight training meeting. I believe that you are leaving out a very large segment of those who took flight training lessons but never acquired their pilots license.