This is an excerpt from a report made to the Aviation Safety Reporting System. The narrative is written by the pilot, rather than FAA or NTSB officials. To maintain anonymity, many details, such as aircraft model or airport, are often scrubbed from the reports.
I am writing about two events that occurred at ZZZ. I do not believe either event was a violation of FAA policies, but I wanted to be sure I reported both of them to protect myself.
I was preparing for a 45° entry into the left traffic pattern for Runway XX at ZZZ. I made my second CTAF call four miles from the airport and announced my intention to enter the pattern “on the 45, left traffic for Runway XX.”
A few minutes later, a pilot flying a Diamond announced he was “turning left crosswind for Runway XX.” He asked whether I was in the left downwind or still “on the 45.” I replied that I was still on the 45 but would be turning left downwind momentarily. He then announced that he was “turning left downwind for Runway XX.”
Just to be safe, I announced that I would perform a 360° turn for spacing. The other pilot flew the downwind leg, then I entered. No issues.
A few days later I received a call from an FAA POI asking about a “near miss” that had been anonymously reported, probably from someone on the ground. She kept coming back to my 360° turn. I explained the situation and referred her to ATCLive, a website that archives radio calls.
I also expressed my confusion over why this was a concern. I had been trained that using spacing maneuvers is the conservative and correct approach at uncontrolled fields if the pilot is in ANY DOUBT about the safety of entering.
The second event occurred 15 to 20 minutes later. This did not come up in my conversation with the FAA POI. It only occurred to me later that this may have been the near miss she was inquiring about.
Here’s a summary: I was on a one-mile final for Runway XX at the same airport on the same morning, about 20 minutes after the entry I described above. I was flying patterns that morning to maintain proficiency.
I looked to my left as I flew the final approach and saw a glider landing on the “Glider XX” runway to my left. He was descending from above me and he was slightly ahead of my aircraft.
It is very difficult for me to measure feet in this situation so I cannot be certain of the distance. But it did not feel like a near miss in any way.
No evasive action was taken by either one of us. We were both flying straight in to our respective runways and lined up on our center lines.
Let me be clear about something — while I do not believe this was a “near miss,” I don’t believe two aircraft landing on parallel runways, with one aircraft being a glider, is a safe practice and I normally would have extended my downwind and/or base to create more room.
However, I never heard the glider pilot’s CTAF calls — if indeed there were any.
Also, the glider was above me so I couldn’t see him until he descended in front of me and to my left.
Some conclusions: I have flown in and out of ZZZ for five years. For an uncontrolled field, it is one of the most dangerous airports I have ever flown, and that includes ZZZ2 inside ZZZ3 Class Bravo. Traffic on any given day is packed with student pilots, private pilots, traveling pilots coming to ZZZ and — worse yet — gliders on a parallel runway to the active non-glider, powered runway. It’s a mess.
Making matters worse, there are five airports in a narrow corridor between the mountains and ZZZ1 Class B airspace — four of which are uncontrolled. And to finish this nightmare off, a very active parachute operation at ZZZ4. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Primary Problem: Human Factors
ACN: 1791749
Some of these self reports are interesting, but you should include the airport name & call sign so pilots that fly into or out of these airports can comment.
Many reports to the Aviation Safety Reporting System don’t include the airport name and none include the call sign to ensure anonymity of the reporter.
I think when one reads all of the comments in totality a 360 turn in or adjacent to the pattern isn’t a solid idea….nor is head down studying a ADS-B in the process.
If airport ZZZ is so dangerous, why would the pilot use it to practice takeoffs and landings there and not fly off to another airport.
Also, the airplane that inquired about his position on the downwind entry may have been sequencing behind him and his 360 could have caused a conflict.
Maybe but doesn’t sound likely. Considering that he asked for an update from the aircraft entering on the 45, it sounds as though the crosswind traffic had good situational awareness and was not shy on the radio. It also sounded like he was satisfied that he could go ahead and enter the downwind in a normal matter hearing that the other aircraft was still on the 45. He didn’t say anything like extending crosswind to follow the aircraft on the 45 or I’ll follow you, according to the report. I think the 360 was a good move but want to add that it doesn’t have to be a continuous circle. And to your point that maybe if the crosswind traffic did intend to follow the 45 entry traffic and had widened out, the 360 could start with a partial circle, especially if in a high wing, to stop the circle and clear the area before continuing the re-entry to the 45.
Uhhh, not much help to others without identifying the airport.
I was curious about that too. It’s ACN 1791749 at ASRS Database Online. Place Altitude of 6300 feet made me guess Colorado.
ADS-B In and Out help in situations like this. Except obviously if the aircraft has no electrical system.
And a lot of gliders, especially training gliders, don’t have ADSB. Not much of a problem at an airport that’s primarily a gliderport first, airport second. I’d have problems at a busy mixed-use airport. What’s usually done is powered traffic uses a left pattern, gliders use right. It’s doable, but it’s a real heads-up environment.
What does the AFD says and what is posted at the airport?
Gliders always have right of way. Airplanes on final have right of way.
A public meeting a couple of times a year is a good idea.
Probably would not have done a 360 on downwind at an uncontrolled airport. You never know where other planes are. I would have continued until I felt confident as to where the other plane was. Then slow down or speed up to get some spacing. I used to fly out of a busy, touristy kind of airport and it can get a tad nuts at times.
I have never operated into or out of an uncontrolled field, however I fly almost exclusively from non-towered airports. My home field is a similar one to the above mentioned. We have 2 runways, with the usually disagreement about which one should be used, gliders, ultralights, helicopters, etc. (but no parachutes fortunately).
I have learned to keep my head on a swivel and my focus 100% outside. I also am spring loaded to going around unless I see a good reason to land (I will often initiate a go-around from the base leg and just stay at pattern altitude and go around for another try, with proper radio calls notifying others what I’m doing, of course. I prefer this to continually extending the downwind “for spacing”). One maneuver that can be used for traffic spacing is to slow down. I had to do that the other day and had the flaps out while still on the 45. I don’t like doing 360s and such in the pattern as I have no idea what is going on behind me. If I get into a real bad situation and can’t either fly a wider pattern, slow down, or something else, I will go to full power pull the nose up, climb right out of the pattern and reenter and try again.
“I have never operated into or out of an uncontrolled field, however I fly almost exclusively from non-towered airports.”
I am at a loss to understand how you can “fly almost exclusively from non-towered airports” but never operate into or out of n uncontrolled field.
Just sayin’………
I was wondering the same thing.
My guess?, Steve is all about what is new and proper. Uncontrolled fields are now to be referred to as “non-towered” just as a “Ramp” is now correctly called an “Apron”. We must try and keep up with the Europeans or at least embrace change for the sake of change, rather than real improvement. Myself I still have trouble remembering that the GADO offices are no longer around having been combined with FSDO a long time ago.
Just because you don’t have a tower doen’t mean the airport is uncontrolled. The control is with the pilots cooperating with each other. What one might call a self-controlled airport.
Now, the airport may be in uncontrolled airspace, but again, the pilots self-control cooperating with each other.
If a pilot goes full power, climb up, exit the pattern from, say, downwind, they might hit someone crossing the runway perpendicularly, as they are supposed to do. Who is ABOVE you? If you can’t tell who’s behind you, how would you know who’s above you?
I’ll bet you’re talking about the area I fly. Boulder, CO. This area is busy with GA, including jumpers, gliders, helicopters and flight training. You learn to keep your head out the window.
I had exactly the same thought. With the addition of a control tower and KFNL and very active skydiving at KLMO the area can be challenging at times, expecially weekends. It’s not uncommon to see seven planes doing pattern work at KLMO and KFNL. Between mountains, KBJC’s jet traffic and KDEN’s Class B you need a swivel head.
That’s why the military usually cruises to Pueblo to practice.
Colorado was my guess as well. It’s ACN 1791749 at ASRS Database Online. Place Altitude of 6300 feet.