Let’s open up a can of worms. Let’s consider the expansion of the DEI concept into the field of aviation. I suspect this topic will cause some readers to get truly angry while others will applaud.
Neither reaction is warranted, of course. Injecting emotion into an intellectual discussion is rarely of value to the process of coming to a decision. Making a choice should be more evidence based. Invoking emotion invites ignorance to reign supreme.
Our feelings are informed by so many variables that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, regardless of the topic itself. We would do well to view potentially divisive issues like DEI dispassionately, with an eye toward reality rather than impressions.
DEI stands for diversity, equity, and inclusion. Individually these are three pretty benign words. Taken together they suggest a policy that some believe in deeply. Others resist the hypothesis with equal vigor.
Like all things living in the present tense, DEI’s acceptance or opposition is largely subjective. And subjectivity opens us up to all kinds of emotional reactions that have little, if anything, to do with the DEI issue itself.
As the man once said, you better check yo’ self before you wreck yo’ self. Yes, that’s an Ice Cube reference in a column about the intersection of social engineering and aviation. I’ll bet you didn’t see that coming.
The problem with subjectivity is that good people with sharp minds and open hearts can see the same issue from a variety of viewpoints. Some they agree with.
“Of course, aviation shouldn’t be restricted to only white men,” they proclaim.
They might even consider the suggestion of a differing opinion on that aspect of the movement to be narrow minded and bigoted.
That same person might find another variation on the theme to be troubling, however. And that’s where our problems thrive. Decent people can be tempted to adopt a knee-jerk reaction to others who appear to disagree with them. Even though that individual may be of the same opinion on a multitude of other closely associated topics.
We’re our own worst enemy when it comes to conflict resolution. We talk too much, listen too little, and rarely think beyond the superficial level that supports our initial beliefs.
How often do you change your mind on topics that are important to you? Consider that for a moment before reading on.
I mention this because a spate of news commentators have recently been either bemoaning or celebrating that DEI has taken up residence in the field of aviation. Comedians have incorporated the topic into their routines as well, suggesting that we’re now in the public arena in a way that is historically foreign to aviation.
The wider public’s view of aviation has traditionally been more focused on food, drinks, leg room, and whether they get to check their bags for free. Their opinion of hiring has rarely been an issue.
No, that’s not true. I wish it was, but it isn’t.
When Tuskegee Airmen returned from Europe following World War II they found their experience and dedication did nothing to open up a pathway to flying commercial airliners. Similarly, the women of the Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP) found the doors of opportunity closed to them as well.
Not many years later the Mercury 13 program found that regardless of their ability to pass every test and excel at the very tasks deemed important to the work they sought, women were specifically excluded from being participants in the fledgling U.S. space program.
In none of these cases was the decision to bar the members of these groups based on their abilities, judgment, or past successes. They just didn’t look right. They didn’t fit the mold.
That historical reality suggests that, sometimes, the mold is incomplete. It’s been constructed inaccurately. In fact, the model we value so highly may from time to time be recognized as exclusive to the point of being nonsensical.
This is what appeals to me about aviation. In its purest form, aviation is a meritocracy. Individually, we can do it or we can’t. We meet the standard of performance or we don’t. That’s it. Nobody is too tall, too short, too blond, too bald, too pale, too dark, too whatever.
Note the word performance in that previous paragraph. Being given an opportunity to fly, to be an engineer, or a mechanic, or any other role in aviation isn’t about gender, or skin color, or national origin, or religious affiliation, or political stance. It’s about demonstrated ability. At least, it should be.
When someone climbs into the cockpit to guide an aircraft aloft, whether they’re flying solo or with hundreds of paying passengers behind them, we as a group should focus on just one issue. Have they demonstrated the ability to do the work safely? If they can, we would do well to open that cockpit door to them and welcome them into the fold.
That all seems pretty obvious, doesn’t it? When we focus on the issue itself, the standard of acceptance becomes fairly clear.
When we inject a few of the myriad variables that can trigger folks one way or another, that’s when the issue gets muddy, divisive, and begins to devolve into pointless arguments.
The reason for the division is not the unrepentant bigotry of the populace as a whole. Americans, by and large, are a socially flexible group. History has shown us time and again that our bias against one group or another passes eventually. The outsiders become part of the pack — accepted into the American collective, if not openly welcomed.
It’s time for us to put our individual anger and bitterness behind us. The talent pool of folks who are finding their way into aviation is growing. Some of these new entrants look familiar, some look different. It makes no difference. If they can meet the training requirements, gain the experience, and show proficiency in their chosen field, they deserve a green light from those of us who came before. More than that, they deserve our acceptance and encouragement.
After all, that’s what we needed to get where we are. Let’s pass that gift on with grace and dignity.
Speaking as a paying customer; We need a way to identify and lookup the credentials of the pilots/maintenance staff before we board(ideally before we buy the tickets).
I see a near future where I’ll be demanding off the plane(then likely banned by airline) once an affirmative action hire is suspected. That’s the biggest problem of affirmative action, you can’t know if any in the protected class actually earned their position; logically you must presume they did not when that is hiring policy. (Competent people of the projected class should be the most against DEI).
Also, it’s not just about ‘passing’ a check ride; there are skill levels; with DEI your most likely NOT getting the highest skill level unless! you see someone of a group discriminated AGAINST(ironically!).
And you assume because of a DEI policy, the female or minority pilots are less competent than their white counter part by some sort of openly bigoted “there has to be a white guy somewhere that is better” mentality. Just what are women and black people qualified to do in your world? 70’s and 80’s where some of the most dangerous decades in aviation. Where was the cry that white pilots were killing everyone through incompetence. Your logic is flawed Kalergi if you default make the assumption someone is unqualified based on race or gender. That IS the assumption you made.
According to AOPA general aviation in this country is doing great since the sale of $75M business jets to corporations (for personal use by over-compensated CEOs) continues to set records. And yet when I fly into what used to be busy little airport and see how deserted they are now, I really don’t get the impression that general aviation is doing so great. But maybe MOSAIC will help fix that over the next decades – we can only hope.
It just seems like the folks at AOPA are getting more and more out of touch with reality, so every year at membership renewal time I debate whether to renew my AOPA membership or not. Well, Jamie Beckett just made that decision so easy! I sure as hell won’t send any more money to an organization that argues for discrimination based on race, gender and other factors – aka DEI. It may be politically correct in his circles, but it is still stupid!
AOPA – you’re fired!
The more I read this article, the more I realized how out of touch the author is… then I see he’s works with young minds… scary. This article is extremely poorly written, hardly contains any valuable information, and the sentences are so short, I wouldn’t quote from it even if I wanted to. Do better.
DEI must DIE
The word “Preference” should have the sanctity and weight of any other word in this conversation, yet it doesn’t appear. Why is that ? Instead, it would of course be disallowed and treated as racism. Again, why is that ?
Taking a page from the music world, symphonies were predominately old white men even 5 yrs ago. They all claimed to be meritocracies, with nothing to do with sex or race. That was until they started blind auditions, where the applicant was given a number and screened from view.
Suddenly, meritocracy did arise with women, people of color, and and younger people filling positions.
I noticed, watching the New Year’s Day concert from Vienna, that what had been a 100% male orchasta, mostly old white men, was suddenly 25% female with 3 Asian faces and about ½ around 30 yrs old after blind auditions were applied.
I’ve seen it time and again in American music. Hard to do a blind audition in the cockpit, but clearly DEI is more than just a social justice program. It is a meritocracy enhancing idea.
I would rather drive to my destination instead of having A DEI pilot in the right or left seat. on commercial planes. just in the past week in KORD, two aircraft left the RNY due too low training on ICY RNY. Oh, also any Boeing max 800-900 aircraft!!
I cancelled my subscription to AOPA after their position on this.
I am a minority, and I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. I would not except any job based on DEI.
Jamie B. just wrote the “condescending sermon” I hate to read in General Aviation News. I don’t know why aviation has to trade common sense for policy. That TRADE is the worst idea in the sky. Continuing with this type of “sermon article” will end this GA News.
I agree 100%. Seems this type of thinking is propagated by colleges and universities across the nation.
Gee thanks for the virtue lesson Jamie. We didn’t understand the issue until you showed us the way. There are already laws against discrimination. This DEI stuff is nothing more than a way to give priority to certain groups and discriminate against others under the guise of being morally superior. Those of us that have seen it practiced in the real world know this. That’s why the Supreme Court ruled against it. Poll after poll has shown that a large majority of people are against it – even in California and within the minority populations this program wants to advance.
Well said.
Well said, Jamie. Most of the people I read opposed to “DEI” don’t realize it’s just the same politically movated rant renaming that excoriated Snowflakes, CRT (an advanced university concept), Woke Culture, and now DEI.
Besides, straight demographic analysis demonstrate that demographic change is coming to the nation, not to mention the cockpit, whether detractors accept it or not. The national birth rate is 1.6, we need 2.2 to keep the population stable. And “white” birthrates are below 1.6.
Like demographers have said for decades, if you want to know what America will look like in 10 yrs, watch TV today. That’s the world the up and coming generations live in, not the one we see in our rear view mirrors.
There is never one best candidate for any job. We are blessed with any number of qualified candidates for any top end position. No one is hired for the cockpit just because they are black or a woman. And yes, there have been mishaps. But old white guys screw the pooch on a regular basis and we never say they augered-in because they were white.
When I board a plane and see a minority or woman in the cockpit I’m happy for them. I’m happy because I know they share the same passion for flying I do and they have demonstrated the skills and knowledge necessary for the position. Let’s be honest. How many airline recruiters would turn down a fully qualified and competent individual because they of their skin color or gender? This is a ridiculous presumption and we don’t need government policies to correct a problem that doesn’t exist. It’s really very simple, hire the most qualified individuals and let the demographics fall where they will.
Well said!
DEI’s message is disgusting, It says “you are a lesser being and need special treatment or you would not make it”. I am a white male, my wife is black. My wife is a real estate agent and top producer. Her client list includes all races and colors and she has solid 5 star reviews. She is successful because she never bought into the sub-human message of DEI or affirmative action. There was no DEI to help her, she made it on her own. I am a professional pilot. I am frequently paired with a black man who is retired from a major airline. He was captain on just about every contemporary Boeing model. He is retired Navy and was commander on P3 Orion’s. He is an exceptional pilot. DEI didn’t exist when he was up and coming in aviation. I recently acquired a type rating on a heavy biz jet. My ground and sim instructor was a black man in his 60’s. He flew F16’s in the Gulf War and is the best and head and shoulders above the many instructors I’ve experienced in my career. In recent years I was paired with a young Asian woman. I’ve never seen anyone learn so quickly. I’d instruct her on a procedure and I NEVER had to say anything twice. She was an excellent decision maker and talented pilot. She can fly my family anytime. I can’t give a better recommendation than that!
My daughter as you may have surmised is mixed race. She is much smarter than I was when I was her age. Don’t dare infer that she is a lesser being and in need of DEI nonsense! The United States ship is sinking from this kind of crap. If we don’t return to merit we will find ourselves in the dust bin of history. Stop buying into the nonsense and just work hard, keep your goals firmly in your sights and you will make it. Raciest is raciest regardless of who its aimed at.
Southwest 1380 Alaska 282 Southern Express 246. Each of these recent harrowing accidents occurred with female pilots on the flight deck. Clearly we should learn from this trend that women are crashing planes at an alarming rate. This all started in the 1940’s when women were permitted to ferry war planes from factories to air fields all over the USA. Wnat next? Lady astronauts?
DEI and the fashionable disregard for merit will continue to bring about the demise of the United States and EVERYONE will suffer. DEI in aviation will degrade safety. There is no such thing as “reverse discrimination”. Discrimination is discrimination regardless of skin color or ethnicity. Wake up before we slip too far down the woke toilet.
Well said!
DEI is just another form of discrimination. The only thing that should be considered is qualifications, skill and experience. The problem with DEI is that, in an effort to fill the positions, lesser qualified candidates are chosen, always.
Before retiring, I had the opportunity to do interviewing and hiring. I was pressured by HR to hire minorities, however the candidates that the people in HR sent to be interviewed were usually unqualified for the position. This particular position was for an electrician that would be working with high voltage. HR sent many people that “didn’t look like me”. My goal was to hire someone capable of doing the work that wasn’t going to kill him or herself or someone else. I ended up hiring a Hispanic male who turned out to be an excellent employee, but with an electrical engineering degree was over qualified for the job. Just about every other candidate couldn’t even use a meter. Pathetic ! That’s what DEI gets you. I don’t want to see anyone in a commercial cockpit simply because they fit a certain ethnic or gender profile.
Well said!
You are 100% correct.
We have had minority Presidents, VPs, Congress members, Astronauts, and on and on.
Do the work, attain the goal. Fall short, blame it on others. That’s America in 2024.
Ive seen all races & both genders in all types of aircraft in the military including the high performance jets. Until lately though, every person qualified via meritocracy. It all depended on the will & determination of each one of those people & not race or gender. Thats what I want when Im in the back on a plane vs people who had a lot of exceptions made for them to allow them to so called qualify. There are plenty in the military who got there by work. Its open to all races & both genders. No need for a possible diluted DEI candidate.
So, the FAA hiring policy finally gets mentioned. They’ve been sitting on this for almost. 2 years. They proposed a list of inclusions.
From THEIR own list of hiring inclusions, after 44 years as an AMT, how am I to accept a deaf, blind, psychotic, intellectually defeciant, amputee dwarf PMI when they present creditials at my hangar to witness if my Maintenance department is in compliance with the current FAR’s? Race and Gender are not mentioned by me because I agree that they do not apply in this debate.
In 1971 at 18 y/o, I took my private pilot check ride from a competent, professional, efficient, observant, perceptive, articulate teacher. The son of a crop duster pilot, I had spent 100s of hours in the cockpit of our passenger planes with Dad’s instructions and observing his skills. I had fine instructors. Still, on that check ride she taught me things of great value, seeing my need. Competency is key–many lives depend upon it!
And the other things you mention are hyperbole and profoundly unlikely to happen in that mix.
I want the best up front, the smartest most talent skilled person. DEI promotes everything else. It does not belong in aviation or any place else.
Well said!
I am a proponent of DEI generally, although there have been obvious excesses in its application. That is not a reason to discard it – just improve it. In spite of the low numbers of women and minorities I have found GA pilots to be very welcoming of blacks and women. In fact they get showered with attention at the owner maintenance seminars I’ve attended. I don’t know how it is in the professional world but I think most of us agree that in flying, performance is what matters and that we need more people to safely enjoy our avocation.
Why should they get “showered with attention?”
Why should they be “showered with attention”? Because based on history, they might be wary of not being welcome. I’m old enough to remember when a woman would show up at an aviation event, the men would patronize her with what they thought were inoffensive jokes and comments – completely unaware that the message they were sending was “you are not one of us.”. Blacks, back then, wouldn’t dare show up.
Substitute “hearty welcome” for “showered with attention”. I think that’s a positive change.
Nothing in aviation is deserved. Everything in aviation takes passion, dedication, study, hard work, commitment, determination, judgement, calculated risk, discretion, and desire. Since the beginning, people like Bessie Coleman have demonstrated that there are NO LIMITS on a person (OF ANY RACE, CREED, GENDER) with these qualities from earning their way to, and excelling at, aeronautics. With safety at stake, there is no room for DEI.
This article could have been summarized in one paragraph instead of agonizingly rambling on for twenty five more.
The responses it elicited, however, were erudite and revealing.I don’t need to add more.
All that matters is talent and ability to do the job. DEI focuses on everything else. That is the problem with DEI.
So right You’re, Mr. Johh, as well as Mr. Jamie Beckett.
Good grief. There is no beneficial reason to push this view on others. By definition DEI is a racist and ridiculous concept. The more it’s discussed, the more all this divisive rhetoric will continue to erode society and equality for all. Job offers and positions should be based on meeting the requirements of the position and choosing the best candidate for the position based on merit and performance in an interview etc. To hire someone based on their race or ethnic background above all else will cripple this countries performance and standards, not to mention jeopardizing safety and killing morale. Here is a novel idea… give the job to the most qualified and suited person for the position. Give those that aren’t, the encouragement to improve whatever skills are holding them back. All this political mess is an ulterior motive that ignores common sense.
Precisely, Mr. Patrick.
As a Senior AME for a dozen years during the 80s-90s, I saw many pilots up close and personal. My standard is very simple: be your best, do your best, and carry on if your performance meets expected standards. Two of my private instructors were women — and each of them was superb. Where I worry is when the FAA announces it will pursue administrative standards that are questionable for performance; same with United Airlines and undoubtedly others. When I fly ME, I’m fine; when I fly commercial, I want “up front” someone who passed standards and maintains performance without question. Otherwise, maybe we should talk about having surgeons that are awarded staff privileges to do operations in hospitals … by applying the same DEI shortcuts as I fear we are dancing with for pilots. After all, he or she IS a doctor …… Great, that’s really reassuring when a family member gets told, “We did everything we could, sorry.” Straighten up folks, flying is a performance at not an advertising slogan or posture. Or ….., should we choose Senior AMEs based on who will “pass” DEI pilot applicants based on standards other than medical ones clearly outlined……l
It’s my understanding that DEI initiatives are focused on recruiting qualified candidates of differing backgrounds. It also involves considering imagery and language and adjusting it to better address a wide variety of backgrounds. I don’t see anything in those efforts that anyone should argue against. Broadening the recruiting base is a smart business decision.
Equity is about equal outcomes based on immutable characteristics socially progressive characteristics like gender fluidity. It puts performance second, at best, by definition.
I read the article and then carefully read all the comments. I have been involved in multiple aspects of general aviation for almost 30 years. Looking back, I completed a string of ratings, serve as a FAASTeam Rep and in multiple organizations in aviation, and practice aviation law and it is clearly true in my case anyway that white male domination is an understatement. Ironically, 2 of the best and most skillful Instructors and flying companions I have ever been associated with were a black male and a white female.
What I have concluded is that race and gender are not relevant concepts with respect to aviation skill or safety.
With all due respect to other commenters in this chain, I believe some may not fully understand what “woke” is. I believe it is merely a recognition that many brutally unfair things have been done to entire classes of people for a very long time and it is obligatory on us to level the playing field. Level means level. Would anyone seriously defend the patent discrimination suffered by the Tuskegee airmen or the Wasps or the Mercury program female astronaut candidates?
Do we seriously believe DPEs will suddenly lower performance standards on grounds of race and gender? None that I have ever known would do that.
In summary, I am just struggling with trying to figure out what we are afraid of? What evil are we trying to stamp out?
That is an oversimplified view. In reality, DEI is racist and sexist. I’ve already written a couple replies under this article giving real world examples of how DEI is implemented. In short, it is nearly impossible for me to hire or promote a non-white male. HR is asking me to visual decide if someone is female or non-white. If I deem them “diverse”, then I can immediately hire them. If I visually decide they are a white male, I can not hire them without an HR exception, waiting at least 30 days and jumping through a bunch of other hoops. See my other comments for details.
Anybody got an accurate definition of what exactly “woke” is? Anybody have a reasonable explanation of why so many people have a knee-jerk reaction to oppose anything “woke” when we don’t even have a definition of it so we know what we’re opposing?
I’m willing to bet that 99% of “the problem” is caused by media pushing their own agenda which is VIEWERS (and they don’t care less who), and thus ratings, so they can charge more for advertising. If they thought they could get good ratings by catering to axe murderers, they would, and happily.
Diversity is one of the strengths of America. Equity is supposed to be one of our core values (“All men are created equal” which actually means all people, not just males). Inclusion brings people together in the “vast melting pot which is America”, and we are stronger for that.
Don’t respond to politician’s dog whistles about “DEI” and “Woke” and the trigger words of the day (or those of the past). The only beneficiaries of this are the politicians, they just want the votes – by fair means or foul. They listen to Chairman Mao, who said a lie repeated a hundred times becomes the truth. We need to listen more to Mark Twain, who said a lie goes three times around the world before the truth has its boots on.
Look in the mirror – are YOU prejudiced against women and minorities? Likely you are not. Why then are WE prejudiced against women and minorities? People are smart, crowds are dumb, and it seems governments are even dumber.
We can do better. That’s the American way.
Woke: If you reverse the “key word” in the woke person’s sentence and it suddenly becomes wrong.
You become woke when realize America is structurally racist and requires conscious anti- racist action to fundamentally transforms it.
For a limited number of positions, accepting one candidate who may not be fully qualified (through DEI) denies another one who might be better qualified. That is discrimination.
One of the reasons I prefer GAN over woke AVWeb is that it avoids these topics which are being well debated elsewhere. Forbes, July 16th, 2023: “The chief diversity officer for Virginia recently stated that “DEI is dead.” Martin D. Brown, who has been serving as chief diversity, opportunity, and inclusion officer for Governor Glenn Youngkin since November 2022 made this bold statement in a speech at Virginia Military Institution.” The tone of this GAN article is that barriers still exist today for anyone pursuing a career in aviation solely due to their being female (one of only two genders) or dark-skinned. Hogwash. If anything, white males have been subjected to reverse discrimination for decades. I am sure many readers here could document being affected by this, as could I. But we accept that life is not always fair and still work towards our goals. My favorite flying instructor was a woman – nearly 30 years ago, and she was a highly-respected senior instructor back then here in North Carolina. The head of the EAA’s Vintage aircraft division, Susan Dusenbury, was America’s first female IA who was mentored by a bunch of old white male pilots in rural South Carolina. Her rich aviation career was not because of her gender, but because of her skills at building, maintaining, restoring and flying airplanes. DEI is all about discrimination, so let’s just stop it. We need impassioned aviators, not hyphenated aviators.
Exactly, Mr. Kent.
DEI=DIE
Lowering the bar is not good for AVIATION or any industry.
“The soft bigotry of low expectations,” I heard someone say. In other words, because someone is a part of some “minority” class, not as much is expected of them. They jump over a lower bar. Look at the Atlas air crash near Houston. Read all you can about that first officer’s traing background. I have. DEI brought down that jet.
Agree!
Here is a statement that may require some thought… If aviation were truly independent of DEI “issues” then flight attendants would still be called stewardesses, the flight deck would still be called a cockpit, and NOTAMs would still reference men (to name a few). Because the people that fly would tell the people that change these names that it doesn’t matter. Perform well and you’re respected as an airman, a stewardess, and in whatever location whether it is in the cockpit, cabin or on the ground.
I don’t see the NBA, or the NFL hiring based on DEI. They hire and fire for the best of the best…and aviation should be no different.
Absolutely. I have no problems with anyone, of any race, religion, or sexual preference flying me, as long as the meet or exceed standards and expectations.
I have a problem when the president of UAL (and anyone else) says there are too many white male pilots (or any other category). That’s the problem with DEI. They want to exclude qualified people in favor of unqualified minorities, etc.
I agree that it was wrong in the past to exclude women and minorities from airline jobs, but you CANNOT right that past wrong by lowering standards and excluding qualified people because they don’t fit the DEI profile. That to me is racist and sexist on its face.
Is aviation good with the current demand to carte’ blanc delete the math scores of one culture to enhance the scores of another’s?
Or does math count in aviation?
You know, not saying all was equal but there’s been a lot more minority involvement and accomplishment through history than is publicized by either side. There’s those who can and do, then there’s the others…no matter what culture. We should realize by now the ” hand up” concept doesn’t work.
I’ve had excellent employees of all races and genders, but minority quotas are a slippery slope.
Absolutely correct!
The overt racism in these comments at telling. There are ways to encourage qualified members of underrepresented groups without lowering the performance bar. If someone says we need more women and minorities, and your first thought is that they will perform worse, then you are a racist and part of the problem.
It is not racist to point out the truth, but apparently many don’t want to face the truth. DEI is one of the many ideas that sounds good in concept, but is terrible in the way it is actually typically implemented. Let’s look at each part of DEI as actually implemented: Unless you are willfully blind, it is clear that “diversity” (as actually applied by corporations, government agencies and other organizations) is simply code for “anybody except a straight white male.” “Equity” slips by many people as an apparent synonym for equality, but in fact the only equality it is directed at is equality of results, regardless of actual knowledge, experience, ability or effort. “Inclusion” sounds like something no one could argue against, until you realize that it is widely applied as a “check the box” method to justify discrimination on the basis of race and sex, which is otherwise illegal. DEI is not good, regardless of any good intentions that may underly its original intent.
Very well put!
You are misinterpreting. They are not saying non-white males are all worse. That is not what is meant by “lowering the bar”.
The problem is in implementation. It is now nearly impossible for me to hire a white male. I work in a profession that is 90% men. 71% of US men are white. I typically only get a couple applicants for a position and often they are both white males. HR is the one sending me the resumes. I do not get to pick the resumes. So, there is no bias on my part. Our company is a melting pot. My new hires over the past two years: 2 Asian, 1 Hispanic, 1 Indian. I all cases, again, typically only received a couple of resumes. 3 or 4 at most.
If all white males apply, I can NOT hire without getting an HR exception and typically that means waiting at least 30 more days to see if any diversity resumes come in. By then, those initial interviewees are gone. They are not waiting for 30 more days.
HR is depending on me to visually decide if a person is non-white male. Most interviews are video conference.
I recently promoted a non-white male and a white female. The white female was immediately approved. For the white male, I had to open a new position, post it, promote it to the other managers/director to try to find diverse candidates. I can NOT promote the person that is already doing the job and deserves the promotion again without an exception and jumping through hoops. I wouldn’t hire anyone else no matter how great they interviewed instead of promoting the person that deserves the promotion. Why would I take a chance on a new person after an hour interview compared to the person that is already doing a great job, which is why we are trying to promote them in the first place. If we liked the new interviewee, we don’t have budget to keep both. We wouldn’t hire the new person and lay off the original person that was already doing great.
So, we have to promote and advertise to other managers/directors in the company to recommend diverse people to apply when they are not going to get the job because we already have the person to get the promotion. That gives the other people false hope of a promotion and is cruel to them.
Feel free to think happy thoughts, but any requirements for DEI will be racist, sexist and will lower the bar in implementation. Not because the applicant is a non-white male, but because the system forces delays such that what might have been a better candidate is now no longer available, forces hiring managers to guess at a person sex and race for which they may be wrong, …
I am an American mutt. I look white, but I am mostly Hispanic and American Indian mixed with a few other things and a European last name. I would be discriminated against when apply for a job in any company promoting DEI.
The problem isn’t DEI; the problem is the politicization of DEI after people – yes, people – whose performance did not meet standards tried, some successfully, some unsuccessfully to hide behind a firewall that supported their denial. Give the politicians a drum to beat and they will beat it. N.B: Politicians come in every stripe from public officeholders and wannabes to corporate climbers or social manipulators.
After 50+ years flying, working and just living I’ve seen people of every sort forced to come to grips with failure, myself included. Those who bear it well learn; those who don’t sometimes try to get a lot of attention.
Yes!
Correct!
The answer is Yes.
I think most aviators today support the concept and the practice of hiring without respect to gender, race, religion, or political affiliation, etc. However, in aviation, performance is the gold standard prerequisite. The FAA recent proclamation that they will be hiring people with physical, emotional and mental disabilities to promote equity is alarming on its face. Certainly there are tasks that people with disabilities can and do perform, but to make a statement like that to the flying public didn’t inspire confidence.
It makes a joke of the FAA
DEI doesn’t have to be a dirty concept. Basically, all it means is giving everyone the same opportunities without discrimination and without prejudice. In my recent research for my PhD on this very subject, what I found were both women and minority males saying they were harassed, discriminated against, faced micro aggressions such as purposely mispronouncing names of minority pilots, being told they can’t have a job they were beyond qualified for simply because they were female. One respondent in my research said she held a Masters degree, was a college instructor in aviation and she was told she would never be a sim instructor simply because she was a woman. Women have reported harder checkrides, as have minorities. All any of them ask is for is the same training and same chances as their white male counterparts. Many asked for better training on sexual harassment, for instance, one woman reported walking onto the flight deck to find pornographic photos all over it. They also asked for more representation in the media, show little girls and minority boys they can be pilots. In an industry that is 93% white male, about 5% women, and less than 2-3% minority, it is something that needs to be discussed.
How would a woman or minority know a checkride was easier for someone else? Was the same DPE used making it apples to apples? Are they pointing the finger vs trying harder or feeling confident enough they are competent? My checkride was hard because i wasnt confident enough in my actions/answers and the DPE picked up on it. I hire/fire for a utility company and we’ve never discriminated even before the whole “DEI” ideology. Best person for the job, period! I assume there is prejudice out there in the world, but i also feel people always want to blame someone or something else for their shortcomings. Aviation is NOT the industry to hire a diverse candidate based on shame or needing more diverse people or a diverse hire quota. (Sadly employers have these)
Respectfully, I think you’re wrong. DEI is a conjured acronym that implies FORCED-by-GOVERNMENT quotas, or else.
I highly doubt the college professor who said she was told she would never get a sim job because she’s a woman. I suspect there are other issues with her and likely either cannot own up to those issues or simply won’t admit them to you during your research.
Porno photos on a flight deck is unprofessional, period. That person(s) should be fired. It has nothing to do with sexual harassment. And in this day and age, to suggest that a qualified professional pilot would not be hired because he/she is non-white is ridiculous. However, I will concede that a non-qualified female or black pilot may cry “white privilege” or “sexism” if they are not hired.
Said perfectly!
Well said, Allan! It is troubling to see the FAA going ‘all in’ on so-called ‘DEI’ . Beware when some government agency undertakes some dreamed up ‘diversity push’ claiming ‘racism’ or some other pet of the day saying and then proceeds to dictate new rules ‘for special emphasis in recruitment and hiring’ including ‘severe intellectual disability’ (what?) or ‘psychiatric disability’ (?) as well as a list of other supposed ‘ailments’.
‘The FAA needs to be pushing to hire only the best and brightest to oversee our airways… not wasting their time on the latest ‘woke euphemisms’ … the latest so-called persecuted people group!
When I and millions of air travelers board a plane we want to know that the crew piloting/caring for us are the best of the best. We are not interested in the color of their skin or their gender or their political leanings and how they are going to vote.
Well said!
You did an entire PhD about DEI and never came to understand that equity (equal outcome) is extremely different then equality of opportunity?
I hope they take it back.
Great comment! Maybe there’s a ceremony when they take the PhD back—the person walks backwards across the stage and then hands back the diploma and their cap. Equity, good heavens. Equal opportunity, yes indeed, this is America!
Ha! “One woman” said blah blah blah. You talk on and on about this one woman. Absurd – if a woman wants to be a pilot today, she could be a pilot today. Almost every single company that has airplanes will hire a woman if she wanted to be a pilot or sim operator or flight instructor or ground instructor. It’s the same in the trucking industry.
“Women have reported harder checkrides, as have minorities.”
Dude—I’ve seen the opposite. Don’t give me that malarkey. There’s racism all right and it’s all directed at white people. Oh, let’s not forget, sexism, directed at men.
Just because racism and sexism still exists, does not mean the DEI is ok. Please read my other comments above. I don’t want to keep posting long real world examples of how DEI is racists and sexist.
I have my doubts much of this is true. It is inconsistent with reality real aviators see for the past 50+ years.
My Mom taught me to fly. She was a flight instructor in 1938. I still value her art of flying; every day I use the skills she taught. My grandfather, on my Mom’s side, taught her to fly. During WWII they taught many Air Cadets to fly for the war effort. But my Mom had married my Dad and had a child in 1940 an so she couldn’t be a WASP although she would have been great. My grandfather was a DPE in the 50s. I’m a DPE now. I have evaluated many, over a 1000, pilots for private, instrument, commercial, initial CFI, type evaluations. Literally every race and gender. Most were good, many were excellent, superb. Some, not so much. But in the end, the standards are the standards. What I have learned is that you cannot tell a book by its cover. Race, gender, etc. do not apply. I have seen applicants walk through the door looking like they owned the world only to fail. I have seen applicants walk through the door looking, well, like youngsters who couldn’t know anything about flying and simply amaze me. Can you do the job safely? Do you have the knowledge and skills? That is what matters.
We’ve not seen DEI applied in other industry/ gov’t positions, where ;
“… If they can meet the training requirements, gain the experience, and show proficiency in their chosen field …”
If aviation can enforce the above qualifications, all will be well…!!
Using the color of skin or gender as a deciding factor for hire/no hire can never be ok…
Also, I have no confidence standards will be maintained…they will overlook deficiencies to further the selected few.
Safety will suffer… likely people will die.
True
So, the FAA hiring policy finally gets mentioned. They’ve been sitting on this for almost. 2 years. They proposed a list of inclusions.
From THEIR own list of hiring inclusions, after 44 years as an AMT, how am I to accept a deaf, blind, psychotic, intellectually defeciant, amputee dwarf PMI when they present creditials at my hangar to witness if my Maintenance department is in compliance with the current FAR’s? Race and Gender are not mentioned by me because I agree that they do not apply in this debate.
Well, Eaglekeeper;
I suspect the FAA would like you to do the same thing you did in the USAF: Salute smartly and carry on.
Eagle Driver
That’s the problem. You’ve already written your own narrative about the outcome. Therefore, anyone that doesn’t look like you will be viewed as deficient. What a shame. Your argument is that people will die? Wow! If my math is correct, and aviation is comprised of mostly *insert here *, then most air disasters have been caused by *insert here *.
As time goes on, luckily enough, you’ll be proven wrong. And after reading that last line, if your first inclination was that you won’t/can’t accept that you’re wrong, then we will know that your perceived notions of minority aviators has nothing to do with actual aviation.
Absolutely correct Damion. I would never let someone slide in any grade, certification or license just because they got there because of DEI. The right
wants to scare society that this will happen. America is not 1955 anymore, nor will it ever be again. DEI is about opportunity for all. Those unqualified for whatever should not be accepted and find something else. The right is bigoted, racist against
anything that changes their white, male fantasy.
Yep, calling me a racist… I get it.
I still say using skin color or gender for hiring purposes is never ok… And I am the racist…
Creating a protected class will always diminish the hard work of members of that class…
Yes, somehow it became racist to insist on everyone meeting the same standards, or as Martin Luther King said (a black man) “Don’t judge a person by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character”.
Keep wokeness out of aviation, please.
Please, keep it out!
Please don’t say “Please”. Better say “We – that put proficiency and efficiency as the main goal for belonging to aviation – demand”.
If you pass a check ride, you should be able to progress to the next level. If you can’t, keep building time until you can. If you have the ratings, you should be able to work in the industry.