In a Jan. 23, 2024, meeting, the Torrance City Council voted 5-1 (with one abstention) to ban touch and goes and restrict back taxis and low approaches at Zamperini Field (KTOA) in Torrance, California.
Officials with the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) say they are “deeply concerned” about this new action, as well as past actions taken by the city to restrict airport operations and what it will mean for the safety and efficiency of surrounding airports due to increased operations and congestion.
In a letter to Torrance city attorney Patrick Sullivan, AOPA cited how this ordinance conflicts with the FAA’s exclusive authority to regulate airport operations and all matters of aviation safety.
“Zamperini Field is part of the national aviation system, and the ordinance contemplated today is not only illegal, but it would also shift flights to neighboring airports in the region,” the letter states. “To avoid the waste of taxpayer funds in defending actions that are federally preempted and that will require significant financial and staff resources to litigate law that is already well settled, the city should not pass the proposed ordinance.”
Although escalations of recent noise disputes may divide opinions, it is obvious that all involved understand the economic benefits and public services the airport brings to the community, AOPA officials said. During the same city council meeting on Jan. 23, the council voted 6-1 to defer action on a land use study that would have threatened the future of Zamperini Field, they noted.
When I was getting my pilot’s license 20years ago, touch and goes were a main part of my training. Our C-172 was at Torrance, so that’s where I did most of my training. It was very scary the first time I had to solo and fly the airplane myself. The main thing you want to practice was take off and landings because you want to be confident that you will be able to land when you are flying by yourself. How can you learn how to fly if airports start banning touch and goes.
Well, stop & goes are an option, as are taxi backs. This gives the instructor time to take the controls during taxi so the student can give full attention to the CFIs critique, instruction, etc….not a bad thing. A student pilot listening to what they did wrong while turning downwind is only hearing half, or less, of what is being said by the CFI.
At $200.00 plus, for instruction, taxi back or full stop landing are expensive.
If you moved into a house after the airport was there, your problem not the airports.
Take responsibility for your decisions.
The airport neighbor is like your next door neighbor. You may not get along, you may even hate each other. But your choice is to put up with them or move.
Same here.
I am a pilot, I would never move close to an airport. If I did, that would be my personal decision.
Let’s say that the airport closes. The land is developed into something that increases your property value. Do you share your new found wind fall, or just keep it.
You see, you made a choice and now you don’t like your choice so you want to blame someone else for your decision.
Take responsibility and quit blaming others.
spoiler alert, the following is worth 2 cents. i grew up under the flight path to Moffett NAS. my dad worked for UAL at the SFO Jet Shop from the time he left the USN wrenching on J-79s until he retired. i’ve done a few things in aviation along the way myself, been flying little planes for, gosh, it’s 30 years now. i’ll get my fossil rating not too long from now.
i first read the same comments shown here regarding Reid Hillview in San Jose over 50 years ago. the comments haven’t changed one iota.
one of my machine shop instructors, Armando Ortiz, had a favorite saying – Money Talks and BS Walks. he made parts that went into orbit, NASA Ames, and wind tunnels.
may i offer a humble suggestion. if you want to influence the nice peepul on the city council, simply make a real donation to their election committee. if you really are motivated, play the game and get some pilots to run for city council, just don’t tell them you’re a pilot. get organized. or just go home and …
Good thoughts Glenn.
The Zamperini airport is named for the most tortured but toughest fighting man and aviator of WW11. He never gave in to the enemy. Let’s NEVER give in. Let us find more ways to legally “Hold our ground.” It’s but a few trouble makers who are making life difficult for this great airport. I have lived in this LA area my entire 78 years and there has never been a truly quiet spot in the southland. This is all about commercial developments for a few rich people and the selfish morons who bought a home in this wonderful and Historic area , but now hate everything and have nothing better to do but complain. I don’t have the answers, but the best way to fight this trouble MUST be found then passed on to all threatened G A airports. Might have to start with some negative concessions at the Airport itself, (which thing I hate), but may save the field and others. It looks more and more like a life or death issue for much of general aviation.
Well said. Aviation has changed a lot in 15 yrs; Communities change one funeral at a time.
Property owner rights & concerns will always trump airplane owners. And the specter of news videos of aircraft slamming into homes, no matter how infrequent, will always haunt our relations with property owners.
Tear down the homes and build a shopping center.
Sooo… Land to a full stop and taxi back to the departure end. It’s not like you have to back-taxi on an active runway; they have a good taxiway.
The situation in Reno Stead airport where we had the Air Races for many decades and slowly construction and attendant safety issues forced us out. This is happening all over, too many people.
The argument about “don’t move close to an airport” is bogus. Airports/airplanes don’t have unlimited rights to create noise everywhere, and residents have rights to the quiet enjoyment of their property to not suffer from the noise from unreasonable or excessive levels of noise whether they moved in 50 years ago or last year. Everyone knows there is some noise inherent in aircraft operations, but don’t try to claim an absolute right of pilots or flight schools to operate however they choose. Most of you commenting don’t seem to appreciate that residents have some rights to protection. It’s not all one-sided. Look at the issues and help find solutions.
Your comment is BS. First, it is not a right for them. If it were there would be no noise from anything. Cars, trucks, railroads, fire trucks, police cars, noisy neighbors, ect.
If the airport was there first and you bought a house there, too bad, suck it up and live by your choice.
The solution to this problem is to impose a fee to file a complaint. The 54 homeowners who filed on average 500 complaints each last year would feel the impact they want to impose on everyone else in the community.
So 5 of the council members are related to developers that want the land. Shocker.
This is horrendous! City council members don’t know the importance of touch-and-go landings during flight training. Population has grown in Torrance around the airport, the airport wasn’t constructed around settled neighbourhoods. I can’t believe this happened. This will hurt the economic impact of the field, and many pilots are most likely considering leaving after this “illegal” decision.
Don’t forget L67 Rialto Muni.
The civil airport was established in 1946 and the population of Torrance in 1950 was around 22,000 people.
Somehow, I imagine the housing population was not originally located near the airport. Which means that the populus built around the airport knowing that there would be aircraft there, not doves.
The same applies to complaints about jet noise. Commercial airlines adopted jet aircraft in the late 50’s and most of the housing projects surrounding most major airports did so after the 50’s so they knew jet airliners were operating there and shouldn’t have been surprised that jet aircraft created noise. If people are dumb enough to build or buy houses near an airports, they should expect aircraft noise.
I’ve worked at airports all my adult life and I got used to the noise. I also wouldn’t have a home where I knew I would be uncomfortable, like near a iron foundry, or chemical, or sewage treatment plant.
Yes, and chemical plants, iron foundries and sewage treatment plants by law don’t have any right to pollute their neighborhoods; neither do airplanes/airports with excessive, repetitive, low altitude, noisy training flights. Airport operations are subject to reasonable regulations just as much as the business activities you cite.
But the character of aviation has changed since homeowners purchased. There is a big difference between J3s & an occasional Beech Stagger Wing using the nearby field & bizjets streaming over your house at all hours.
I would say that’s not all that’s changed. Decades ago, grass was cut and then left where it lay. Now it’s cut, blown, trimmed, edged, etc….all done by power equipment that, when used next door, rivals or surpasses the noise level of a bizjet passing over at 1000 ft.
Well, I live near an airport, not in California, I fly small planes and jets myself from that airport. I have concerns about the noise increases also, and empathize with the residents of Torrance. The issue at our airport is all the training traffic. They are flying here to train, from other airports nearby to escape the busy pattern or noise restrictions at their home airport. Also the jet traffic has increased 3-4 times in the past few years. We built our homes 15 years ago . All this activity has increased in the past 3 or 4. We don’t mind the airport the way It was 15 yrs ago…..but at what point do My rights to enjoy my Property outweigh the “need to grow” the airport ?
Try to put yourself on those shoes.
I do put those shoes on, every day. I also live in very close proximity to an airport that I fly out of. The amount of airline pilot production, I mean, flight training activity, has increased exponentially over the last 3 years. As a result, the airport not only receives the to-be-expected noise complaints from nearby residents…who all moved in well after the airport was built, but also from folks living under the increasingly notorious “practice areas” just outside the airport’s Class D airspace boundary.
OTOH, I grew up in very close proximity to KTOA, just “over the border” in Rolling Hills/San Pedro. It was already a busy airport and I enjoyed being able to watch the planes from my back yard. That area was crowded back then; it is unrecognizable to me today.
For those locals, to be able to identify airport-related noise, specifically, as a detriment to their quality of life, is disingenuous BS. There is so much ambient noise there, from “civilization”, that if KTOA shut down and was turned into high-density housing, a shopping center, or a business park…which I imagine are the desired options, you would not know the difference.
And you never imagined that the airport operations might grow with the area, and now the noise bothers you? Get a helmet, man!
Moove for some other place!
So, what about MY rights as a homeowner? I guess it’s ok that when my subdivision was built 34 years ago, we had nothing but lightly traveled streets around the area.
5 years later, a major interstate freeway was built within earshot of our community which has since created noise and pollution at all hours of the morning, day and night.
We were made aware at the time of purchase that eventually a freeway would be constructed and accepted that, but now the conditions are just unbearable.
To ensure that we don’t have a double standard between airports and freeways, I think the local government should at the very least restrict freeway access form 9:00 PM to 8 AM daily. Even though we accepted the fact that the freeway was coming, as a result and according to many, we waived our rights to a good quality of life. Well, I’m sick of tricked out motorcycles, tricked out cars and 18 wheelers creating unbearable noise and stinking up the air adjacent to our homes 24/7. At what point do MY rights to enjoy MY property outweigh the “need to grow” freeway? Guess it’s time for us to sue government to shut down that noisy, smelly and filthy freeway in our otherwise beautiful community.
I live between two airports, one directly east of me and one directly west of me. The one west of me increased the length of their runway to 7000′ to handle heavier Jet traffic. And then there is the Class C airport that we have to the south west.
Here in Indiana, if you live within 5 miles (I think that is what the doc had on it) of an active airport you have to sign this document, acknowleging that fact.
How would you like to live within 3 miles of an intersection used by Helicopters and anytihng flying into one of two airports within 5 miles of that intersection?
This is the area I live in. And the aircraft noise is not significant, except for the heavy lift helicopters that you can hear coming for 10 minutes (at night, like 3AM). They are probably life flights transporting people to a trauma center immedately south of me.
What is more noisy are the leaf blowers, mowers, and construction stuff going on around me. Those I can hear in my office where I work.
So I have jet traffic that I have to be outside to even hear it that flies within a half mile of me to get into the west airport (the one that extended their runway). I have formation flights that fly over, people practicing formation flying in warbirds and Bi-Planes. Not sure where they are based.
The loudest aircraft are the twin engine aircraft for multi-engine ratings. But I can’t hear them inside my house. And this crackerbox is not that well built.
Caveat: I was a pilot. I flew in and out of all the airports within 15 miles of me and know the approaches, GPS, LOC, VOR and ILS within 20 miles of me. Believe me, the motorcycles, muscle cars and trash trucks with the commercial trucks (used for construction) are all louder than the aircraft.
Having lived in SOCAL (Pasadena) and NORCAL (Silicon Valley), I know the problem that the airports have. And someone else said this, and I second it. Run for office and get on the council and make sure you have two of you somehow involved on the coucil and zoning boards.
This follows on the heels of Torrance’s recent decision to implement landing fees for GA aircraft. I would not be surprised if the resulting diminution in airport use is used to justify closing the airport entirely. See, e.g. KRHV and KSMO. As others have stated, KTOA has actually aerospace companies that use the field, so that would have consequences for Torrance’s economy.
Tonight, the Council considers whether or not to spend more money (nearly a half-million dollars) on more noise monitors and further restrictions on operations. The staff report states: “In calendar year 2023, 27,245 complaints were submitted from 54 residents of Torrance.”
54 residents out of 136,360 residents made 27,245 complaints last year! Do the math: 4 one-hundredths of a percent of residents made an average of 505 complaints each. It will cost us nearly $9,000 each to mollify those 54 residents.
Here is a solution. Take the 136,360 residents, divide up equally the cost of relocating all the businesses and private airplane owners to a new location and assess fees to each resident that cost.
Problem solved.
General Aviation Airports like Zamperini Field “makes” pilots and mechanics. Think about the last time you flew to Mexico or Europe… those pilots flying commercial aircraft found their niche and passion in a general aviation airport. If they can’t fly and practice at a local airport, then “WE” will not have the resources to explore the rest of the world.
Torrance City Council is doing a disservice to the United States National Airspace System.
There is a fair amount of industry and tax base at that airport with Sling and Robinson Helicopters being just 2 of the successful businesses there. It would be a blow to the community to lose all that!
Being a x-country point A to B pilot for 48 years the highest safety issue I find is at the airport traffic pattern mayhem.
This is why, despite great disdain by others, if at all possible I align well in advance for straight in, or at least a base approach.
My inlaws live 1.5 miles to the SW of the Zamparini and on a hill overlooking that area. From that location I can hear intermittent sound from takeoffs and planes flying by in the pattern, yet constant and much louder sound levels from Pacific Coast Hwy a few blocks away which has very high traffic from dawn till midnight. As I see the “Take Back Torrance Airport” signs on a couple of nearby houses, I have to wonder why theses same people aren’t trying to close the highway?
Has anyone ever done a study to compare the noise of a light airplane at the airport boundary, or over a neighboring city or neighborhood, compared to a weed eater, edger. leaf blower or big riding lawnmower that most lawn services use?
Just another reason to leave California
This is what happens when city council runs the airport, instead of an airport authority.
Sling should just move to TEXAS!
The irony is that the Sling Pilot Academy operates out of Torrance (in fact they build the planes there), and the Slings, with their Rotax engines, are so quiet that in all likelihood the neighbors don’t even notice them.
Surprised SPA didn’t try for an exemption of some kind. Perhaps they will.
Sling is actually the source of the majority of the complaints that lead to the ruling…
If you don’t like hearing airplanes don’t live by an airport. Simple!!
Exactly! The most part of the airports were constructed in “the middle of nowhere”. After that construction, people started to move there and building their homes and now they complain about the noise! Moove away!