In the several years I’ve been writing this column I’ve never had the occasion to immediately follow up a piece with a second pass at the topic. It just didn’t seem relevant. Until now.
It’s not unusual for me to receive email from readers. I answer most of them, only rejecting the anonymous ones. Yet, last week was the first time I was physically stopped by female pilots who wanted to thank me for writing a piece about their travails. Their gratitude was palpable. And that got me thinking.
Appearance isn’t everything was intended to illustrate the lack of respect women often face when moving into the aviation industry. The two women featured are real women whom I’ve known and flown with. Their stories are true.
As it turns out, the anecdotes they share are not isolated incidents. They’re pervasive. And a review of the comments left on that article show that to be truer than many of us might like to believe.
It’s true women have been involved in aviation since the earliest days of heavier-than-air, powered flight. Harriet Quimby was the first woman licensed to fly in the United States. Dubbed the “China Doll” by some press outlets, she was not quite as universally respected or admired as some revisionists might suggest.
Bessie Coleman was a popular flier of the early days, too — although she found so much resistance to her desire to fly she had to travel to Europe to get into flight training.
During World War II the Women Airforce Service Pilots (WASP) distinguished themselves as capable pilots who often flew multiple types with minimal training. During the war, 38 WASP died, mostly in crashes brought on by equipment failures. Sabotage has been suggested as the cause of some of those fatal accidents. Think about that. The implications are chilling.
Aviation has never been particularly welcoming to women. And by “aviation” I mean “men involved in aviation.”
Suck it up, boys. We’re the problem now, as we were then. You can disagree, but you’d be wrong. We make up more than 90% of the pilot population. If we welcome newcomers, we get newcomers. If we make their lives miserable, we don’t. It’s that simple.
Wading through the comments on that last piece, I was astonished by the misinformation, bad assumptions, and plain old belligerence toward fully qualified pilots based on nothing but their gender.
One commenter announced with indignity that he’d discovered the Ninety-Nines, an organization designed to promote and support female pilots, won’t accept men into their membership. Hmm, that’s a dubious claim. The Ninety-Nines is indeed a membership organization for female pilots, but the Friends of the Ninety-Nines is open to anyone, male or female, pilot or not.
He also took Tammie Jo Shults to task for media outlets routinely referring to her as a female pilot. I’m not sure how this former Naval aviator and Southwest captain might control the comments of others who reference her, but that’s become her responsibility according to at least one reader. That same commenter equated a female pilot with tattoos to a dirty, unkempt, and apparently drunk male pilot. Seriously? Drunk and tattooed are on the same level now?
I don’t think so.
I may not be the best CFI ever to take to the skies, but I’m pretty sure women applicants are tested using the same Airman Certification Standards the men are judged by. Isn’t that the common metric we’ve been presented with for applicants regardless of weight, height, nationality, religious conviction, skin color, or gender? Did I miss something?
Another commenter admonished women pilots to “get out and get your ratings and apply for jobs like everybody else, or is it better to sit back and cry “discrimination” and want jobs handed to you.”
This dolt (and yes, I choose that word specifically to describe a cretin of this sort) apparently didn’t catch the drift that both women mentioned in the story have their certificates and ratings, they have jobs, they’re respected and trusted by their employers, they’ve got time in fixed wing aircraft and helicopters. In short, they’re better qualified than the vast majority of pilots in the marketplace. But it’s still okay to disparage them because…they’re women.
I wonder if the more mean-spirited men commenting would accept the challenge to show off their immense piloting skills on a ride with Patty Wagstaff or Julie Clark?
I wonder if they’d like to strap onto the tip of a rocket and try to keep up with Eileen Collins for an orbit or two. I have no doubt they can show us the time they’ve logged in more than 70 types of aircraft flown in a war zone while unarmed, as Suzie de Flores did.
How many times have these malignant nay-sayers been asked by a passenger why they became pilots and didn’t just become a stewardess? I’ll wager they’re by and large less accomplished and more bitter than any of the women mentioned in this story or the previous one.
For those who don’t know, the job of a CFI is to transfer knowledge, to provide the insight that can help develop skills in others, and to increase the confidence and competence of those they fly with. How do so many of us miss this simple truth?
Being a pilot isn’t about belittling others who have attained the same certifications we have. I’m at an absolute loss on the topic of making assumptions about a pilot’s qualifications, professionalism, or motives simply because of their gender.
Women make up more than half the overall population, but less than 10% of the pilot population. It’s not for lack of effort, either. They’re out there. The rest of us are doing our best to drive them away, though. In my humble opinion, we should stop doing that. It’s counter-productive.
Incidentally, on Wednesday, Oct. 2, 2019, at 10 p.m., on CNBC, you can watch former Tonight Show host Jay Leno climb into an ICON A5 with my good friend, Genesah Duffy. The same Genesah Duffy who was insulted so cavalierly in the comments section of last week’s column. You’ll note Jay doesn’t have any qualms about flying with her, because Jay is a class act.
Aim higher, boys. You’re missing the target by a wide margin and shooting yourselves in the foot in the process.
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And that is what we call a Class A Smackdown!
Females in traditionally male occupations are nothing new. To think that we have it handed to us is pretty ridiculous considering we usually have to work twice as hard to earn the respect even though we passed the same criteria for the position as our male counterparts. Scouts of America is getting ready to award the first Eagle Scout to a girl and guess what, she had to do the exact same tasks as her fellow male scouts.
I look forward to a time when we don’t have to defend our positions because of our gender and I hope it’s sooner, rather than later.
Yes, The 99s is all women, just like the QBs is all men.
Doesn’t the “men suck” pot get stirred constantly?
My mother, now 79, broke that barrier in 1961 and became a licensed private pilot. My dad did too and I got mine in 1992. Today my oldest niece, 21, is living with me and my wife working on her private here in Tulsa (she’s very close to her checkride) and then will head to ATP in Conroe, TX to get all her other licenses and ratings in her goal to become an airline pilot. There’s a lot of young ladies here in Tulsa going to the various flight schools but I do know they are in the minority. My local pilot friends and I encourage them as much as we can. We should them all regardless of gender.
Thanks for the article! It was entertaining and eye-opening. As a 53 year old white guy pilot, I am very disappointed—but unfortunately not surprised—by my brethren who are eagerly chiming in with their edgy ignorant crap and bias. So concerned about—omg!—Reverse Discrimination! Hilarious! Does any RD exist? Sure. But mostly it’s a myth, and it certainly pales in comparison to the dominant biases in our world. But just the whiff of RD has them absolutely freaking out! (Would any old white guy trade? Become a woman or a person of color! I don’t think so. So cut the outrage. It makes you look very foolish.)
No men allowed in the 99s! Oh the unfairness! Weenies! Imagine if these old dudes had a lifetime of being treated as second or third class people, what non-male, non-WASPS have “enjoyed” for—like—ever! These cowardly posts are sadly a phenomenon of all social media, wherein Neanderthals can sit in their undies behind a screen and say rude things they’d probably never have the courage to say in person. (Yes. I would say these things in person.) It’s also a function of (old) age. These old duffers are indeed MAGA, but not in the way they think. They are MAGA by increasingly making their transitions to the next life—and leaving the world a little better and more open-minded when they do. It’s hard to be patient as these old guys finally die off, but it helps to know that in spite of the current ignorant …errr… “climate,” the arc of the world is bending toward improvement—as the small-minded old folks are laid to rest, and the younger, more enlightened folks increase their presence.
Meantime, I’d like to ask my old white brothers to pump the brakes a bit on the anger and the “fire-pluggery” and just try to see women and non-WASPS as your extended family here on planet earth. Cause that’s what they are. Your extended family. Try to be kind to them. Even if they have tattoos or girl parts. Or both. Life will be much sweeter. Try it. You might like it.
I attended and graduated from Embry Riddle many moons ago. Maybe the first class at Daytona Beach. One of the by far best instructors was a female and a lot of us who were serious about being professional and better pilots wanted her for instruction and check out. Ms. Walker – thank you
Betty Greene, a WASP and co-founder and first pilot for Mission Aviation Fellowship, has an excellent book titled, “Flying High.” She details her many challenges and triumphs in early aviation. Great read and not only for females!
I think that, between human beings, a discussion like that one seen in the comments above is truly a shame. Men an Women are completely equals in intelligence and capacity for any work, independently of respect nature. The question is, in my point of view, why there’s yet, in the twenty first century, civilizations (and we know that those still exist nowadays) – or ways of thinking – that don’t accept those undoubtably conditions of equality and acted accordingly, either by law or social behavior.
If those two factors where in every solid mind of everyone, discussions, and or misunderstandings, reflected in the comments should never exist.
Hey Larry if you don’t think women are still being discriminated against, you need to get out of your hanger a bit more. Women make less money than men, passed over for promotion, women face discrimination from good ole boys like you every day that want to keep them makin’ babies and in the kitchen.
I watched my mother fight and claw her way to where she broke through into the “boys club”, rest her soul. I watch my daughter fighting some of the same battles 40+ years later.
Even flying Young Eagles there are some that gravitate towards flying boys instead of females! Open your eyes and look around.
But I know that won’t happen.
Until we as the aviation community open our arms and give equal opportunity nothing will change.
I could give a damn whether Genesah has tattoos or not, why was that even brought up? Never seen a guy with tats? I think you are actually a fearful old fart ready to blame all your short comings on a woman. Hey Larry what do you think about black pilots? (This should be good).
I can’t believe you even have the balls, or maybe you don’t, to bring up a dinner speech. Never been to a banquet? Ask Sully how many he has attended!
Well Larry despite you protests to the contrary you are a misogynist, your rambling anti female post proves it.
I was captain on the Boeing 727 or as it was lovingly known on our airline; the Studebaker, or in our pilot base in MSY the Koonass Konkord because we used to fly it at “warp” speeds before fuel got so expensive. All of pilot/flight engineers were outstanding by the way, but this flight engineer was a woman who had been sent down to our MSY base from ATL. She was sharp as a tack. Connie had been a flight attendant prior to her becoming a pilot/engineer. We learned she had completely restored a J-3 Cub, including overhauling the engine in her living room. She was married to one of her pilots and she told us she had to sign a pledge that she would never fly with her husband in order to be hired for the cockpit. I guess in case they got into a domestic argument. This was back in the 1980’s so I don’t know if she is a real senior captain now or has retired as I have been retired since December, 1985 All i do know is that we didn’t discriminate because she was a woman. To us, she was just one of the guys. and was a damn good pilot.
It hurts to see someone ranting against a woman pilot just because she’s a woman. As a pilot for over 52 years, I think more women in flying is exactly what we need.
At this point, I’m beginning to think Larry is doing this on purpose to prove Jamie’s point. Well done Larry! I see what you did there.
For those uneasy about women in the cockpit, the following is a news item from a Society of Experimental Test Pilots newsletter:
Gordon and Grandstaff earn US Army’s Broken Wing Award at USNTPS
Congratulations to Barb Gordon, a civilian rotary wing instructor at the USN Test Pilot School (TPS), and Chief Warrant Officer 3 Sylvia Grandstaff (then) a student at the USN TPS, both SETP members, who accepted the US Army’s Broken Wing Award. According to the Navy press release: “Highly regarded and rarely awarded, the Army gives the Broken Wing to aircrew who have minimized or prevented loss of life and aircraft through outstanding airmanship during inflight emergencies. Gordon’s award marked the first time the Army presented the Broken Wing outside of the service.” The brief story is harrowing, and I hope Gordon and Grandstaff present a more detailed talk at a future symposium. According to the Army: “During the single-engine test technique with one engine at idle, the helicopter suffered failure on the opposite engine. [The crew] had less than five seconds to recover the aircraft and experienced rates of descent between 9,000 and 12,000 feet per minute. According to the investigation, the mishap would have been catastrophic if not for the immediate actions by Gordon and then student Grandstaff.”
If I wanted to produce a reality TV show with programming to make my point about “special treatment” for females — 7% of pilots — I couldn’t have done a better job than the ‘Jay Leno’s Garage’ hour yesterday.
So NBC — or someone? — has to fly Genesah all the way to Long Beach from Tampa Bay for why ??? A: … because she’s a female. I’m sure the left coast demo pilot already there appreciated being passed over for that segment. Jay was already in Florida with John Travolta at Jumbolair … it’s just a hop, skip and jump over to Tampa Bay in John’s ’55 T-Bird. Why didn’t they just film it there? YOU coulda played the part of the old lineboy. Maybe the left coast pilot was a non-descript old, balding white misogynist guy? Why they coulda stopped at KGIF to say hi and thanks to you on the way over, Jamie.
And they have to trot out Tammy Jo in the old Amelia Terraplane car at Van Nuys airport because why ??? A: … because she’s a female and rescued a sick SWA airplane? Maybe Sully was busy and couldn’t help out? Besides … he’s a GOB. Next week you can listen to her speak at the NAA Luncheon in DC for just $75 per seat complete with veggie burger. Toss in another $25 and you can have a copy of her book, “Nerves of Steel.” I’m sure she think’s she’s Sully #2? Maybe she’d autograph it for you if you begged? You can afford a C-note plus C150 fuel, can’t you? Maybe the experience could be a segue into another misandrist blog for ya. There must be a few more male pilots out there who haven’t yet been emasculated or “punished” male pilots, as gbigs says? Sure hope Tammy Jo donates to the 99’s (punctuation purposeful).
Well, at least the segment count WAS equal … a male U-2 pilot in PJ’s with a special urinary tube and a famous rich old, now bald, white guy actor/pilot flying a BBJ in the other two segments. Had they also trotted out Heather Penney, I woulda really been mad. I shouldn’t complain then, I guess. I did notice they covered up Genesah’s arms with long sleeves so she wouldn’t scare Jay. Nice touch with Tammy Jo wearing an F-18 fighter jet necklace, too. And don’t think I didn’t notice that Genesah’s old, white line boy was missing, either. Very subtle to all but those in the know. THIS is how mass media subtly brainwashes the masses. Won’t be long before there’s a Tammy Jo Blvd somewhere like Bessie Coleman Dr near O’Hare.
Let the attacks on Larry begin … The sad part is, I’m NOT a misogynist and I’m really a decent guy … who is just sick and tired of all this lopsided display of … I don’t know what to call it? Maybe stirring the pot IS right? Teach me something about aviation and change the subject, will ya. You coulda written about how Tammy Jo used the rudder pedals and power levers to compensate for asymmetric thrust to become a “hero.” Clint Eastwood had it right … “You’re beginning to bore me.”
Like I’ve said … stop whining and fly the airplanes, ladies. By 2019 you’d already achieved equal opportunity in our brave new PC world, as Terry opines. How you use it is up to you. Doing THIS ain’t it. Now you want to rub my nose in it and the various forms of media are complicit. Maybe you’re 7%’ers for a reason? Can’t be any other point to it all? Won’t be long before Genesah will be selling HER first book … maybe it’ll be called “How I sold $400K flying jet skis to rich people and once took Jay Leno for a ride?” BTW: I noticed she didn’t have a car in the show. Are tats THAT expensive?
Be careful what you ask for … you might wind up unequal. There are those who capitalize silently on opportunities without going to the limelight and those who whine about it all. The WASP’s were the former (heros) and I see many of today’s females in the latter camp. Is whining allowed under CRM?
Hi Larry! I hope you feel better after your rant. As an 18 y/o new private pilot I greatly enjoyed the NBC segment. It made me feel seen and heard in a world full of people like you.
I have to admit, It is hard to believe that you are not misogynist when your first reaction to seeing a new segment highlighting women in aviation is to post a rant on a blog about everything that is wrong with it. I agree it was not perfect- but perfection is a goal, not a destination.
You truly inspired me today to go out and second guess every male in the industry I love.
I hope you have a great day!
Laila,
Don’t let a comment like the one above get you down. There are many men who are cheering us ladies on in this industry. The men who aren’t (like Larry) are just a little bit louder than the others.
I agree with you that this segment was fantastic. It makes young girls and women all over the world realize they can fly too. No matter how many times I meet a female pilot, it’s always a bit inspiring to hear their stories. We all connected when we see someone we feel is like us, and I hope Genesah was the person you felt connected to. Or maybe you felt connected to Tammy Jo, either way they are some of the coolest women on the planet and striving to be more like them is not something to be shy about.
And lastly, congratulations on following your dreams to achieve your PPL at such a young age. Keep flying. Keep dreaming. Keep learning. I have no doubt you’ll do great things, regardless of some silly man’s opinion of you.
Thank you,
Sometimes the world gets a little scary but seeing your reaction and many others like it makes it seem a little big brighter. Seeing successful women in the industry inspires me and may other women to dream higher and fight harder.
I very much appreciate you and your very kind words.
Laila don’t let the bastards get you down. Go get it!!
Why does it have to be us versus them? Aviation is dangerous. ANYONE who gets involved in it regardless of age, gender or even physical handicap deserves the same access to the sport and the same respect when they achieve a cert or rating. Simple really. No need to point one group out over another. That seems to be the mode these days, sadly.
Larry you’re comments never cease to make me chuckle.
For the record, while I am currently the only female instructor pilot on the east coast team there are probably at least 3 female instructors on the west coast team. I was specifically chosen to fly Jay Leno for the following reasons;
1. I have been an instructor pilot for the company for 2.5 years, which makes me one of the more senior instructors for the company.
And
2. I am actually the Chief Instructor Pilot for ICON Aircraft, so maybe I’m actually the one best equipped to talk about the aircraft and demonstrate its abilities on national television.
As you can clearly see, none of which have to do with me being born with a vagina.
Lastly, I wore a long sleeve sweater because … drum role… it was cold. Who would have thunk.
Genesah FTW! You made me laugh so hard while driving your point home equally well. Bravo!
As a major airline captain with more than 20000 hours and 32 years in the industry, I have NEVER heard ANYONE disparage a female pilot. I, along with my colleagues treat all female pilots with the respect they deserve. Not sure where all this negativity comes from.
MY point exactly, Terry. Thank you!
Someone musta looked at Genesah sideways and Jamie feels the need … ?
Whew! Well it’s good to know that women have just been imagining discrimination and it never really happened at all!! What a relief!
Virtually every time I see an article in which a member of a minority group mentions that they get less than equal treatment in our society there will be a bunch of belligerent comments from members of the majority (ahem, white men) complaining about it. They always seem to feel that the folks in the minority shouldn’t complain about their situation. But apparently these white men have an absolute right to complain about the complaints. If they get their undies in a bunch just from reading an article about discrimination, imagine how worked up they would be if they themselves actually had to live with that kind of discrimination.
How did you know Patty Wagstaff’s hangar used to be next to mine?
Shall I send you a pic of Julie Clark and I receiving awards at SnF 2019?
I said MY piece … and I’m stickin’ to it … STOP whining and fly the airplanes, ladies!
Signed,
a 49 1/2 pilot (that is an insult to ME)
100% agree with your observation. However, to be accurate, females account for only 6.6% of license holder if you discount student certificates. The fact that a higher percentage start flying but drop out quickly is important to note.
Flying seems to attract more than its fair share of macho Chuck Yeager wannabes, which most women and particularly the younger ones, find repulsive. Even motorcycling, a traditional male activity, now has a 20% female ridership and that percentage is increasing quite rapidly.
The reasons why would take me an entire article or two to explain, but one has certainly been the sea change in attitudes by male writers for cycling media as well as the inclusion of many more female staff members on such publications. Keep spreading the word, Mr. Beckett!
Most of the my pilot friends who resent flying with women PICs have something in common,… they don’t have the strength of will to keep the upper hand over their wives at home.
Good article, there’s a lot of great pilots that happen to be women. I read that if I claim to be a better pilot than Patty Wagstaff that I get to go fly with her so she can embarrass me? That’s worth it, say when and where please.
You miss the point. There are those who complain that “some” women belittle men and/or use their gender (in this era of #metoo) to gain advantage by not doing the same work to get the same pay or level of recognition. And their gripes are founded.
There are abusers on BOTH sides…old school men that do not want to give ground to deserving women, and belligerent and bitter ladies that want to punish ALL men, even the ones who have never committed such sins.
In fact, how the soon coming transsexuals that will want men and women to accept them switching sides? There are plenty of ways to point out discrimination, but not often do we see anyone recognized for simply accepting people regardless of their gender or ratings levels.
Very good! Thanks for saying what needed to be said.
What would we do without guys like you in our camp?
Thank you, Jamie.
Would you happen to be the Woody Pusher-building Jan Johnson I met in Oshkosh back in the 80’s?
Ladies Love Taildraggers is having their fly in this weekend in Natchitoches, LA, October 3-5. C’mon down and see us!
Great piece Jamie. The truth hurts.
Hopefully it is like a bandage. It is painful ripping it off but it eventually feels better and heals.
Well said Sir!
Jamie, nicely put. Very nicely put.
Thank you Jaime and my fellow women pilots that paved the way and for all fellow pilots that supported my dreams.
A lady pilot, CFI, MEI, AGI, Remote Pilot
Thanks for the follow up article, Jamie!
I have to admit that I was very disappointed in my pilot brethren last week while reading the comments. It was just ignorance on a whole other level.